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Steve Shafley
05-11-2007, 05:23 AM
Anyone want to take a crack at one? It's an interesting and progressive bunch we've got here. Danny John's influence is undeniable, and so is the Olympic lifting influence, and the metaprinciples behind Crossfit.

At this point, though, how can everything is not be somewhat derivative?

I think the Power Bias is an important part, as is, of course, the proper nutritional strategies for both longevity and performance.

HORMEOSIS!

Will Heffernan
05-11-2007, 05:37 AM
Anyone want to take a crack at one? It's an interesting and progressive bunch we've got here. Danny John's influence is undeniable, and so is the Olympic lifting influence, and the metaprinciples behind Crossfit.

At this point, though, how can everything is not be somewhat derivative?

I think the Power Bias is an important part, as is, of course, the proper nutritional strategies for both longevity and performance.

HORMEOSIS!
Ahhh...what the hell are you talking about?

Are you looking for a Universal Training Theory?

Steve Shafley
05-11-2007, 05:44 AM
No, the PMenu philosophy on training, basically.

Which has nothing to do with your legendary and secret Universal Training Theory, Coach Heffernan.

Use this analogy:

A training philosophy for a hero as opposed to a training philosophy for a soldier.

Celtic Warrior vs Roman Centurion
Plains Brave vs US Cavalry
(and for Jamila)
Zulu Warrior vs British Calvary

Derek Simonds
05-11-2007, 05:49 AM
HORMEOSIS!

You beat me to the punch!

I have been thinking about this since I get asked what I do for exercise all the time while I am traveling. I was in Jacksonville NC and a guy that was sharing the curl rack with me said do you do a lot of endurance training. This was as I was doing snatches. The guy out weighed me easily by a 100 lb's and was using the same bar as I was snatching for straight leg deadlifts. I replied no I do a wide variety of exercises focusing on O-Lifts and functional movements with a power bias. Needless to say that created an extremely puzzled look on his face so I said yeah I am a triathlete and that seemed to placate the beast.

The problem is explaining the power bias. I refer people to the first article I ever read in the Performance Menu about Power Bias, the problem is most don't get the concept of functional movements and metcon to begin with.

James Evans
05-11-2007, 06:01 AM
This is probably not the point to step with:

"It's Muthaf@ckin' arms day! Sweet!"




Careful you all hear? Don't go stealing anyone's IP now....

chris hill
05-11-2007, 06:11 AM
This is probably not the point to step with:

"It's Muthaf@ckin' arms day! Sweet!"

or "Don't forget to bench"

James Evans
05-11-2007, 06:57 AM
I've been enjoying the daily schedule over at Gym Jones lately with regards the references to Pat O'Shea. I think Steve has mentioned this in another thread.

Generally Mark Twight is illustrating the adage that there is 'nothing new under the sun'.

This from yesterday:

Today’s workout is based on the Interval Weight Training concept developed by Pat O’Shea and described in the NSCA Journal, volume 9, number 2, 1987. “One such method may be found in the concept of Interval Weight Training (IWT) first proposed by this writer in 1969. From a scientific and technical standpoint IWT is a highly sophisticated and effective means of multi-variable cross-training to optimize performance in a wide variety of sports. Through the proper selection and manipulation of IWT intensity (load, intensity, volume, and frequency of training) an extremely high level of total athletic fitness can be achieved.” The 1969 date is referenced in O’Shea’s publication, Scientific Principles and Methods of Strength Fitness, Random House Inc., New York, 1976.

Pat O’Shea was the Real Deal. During his five decades as a “student of sports physiology” he competed in Olympic lifting, power lifting, cycling and skiing. He climbed mountains, coached athletes, and was a professor of exercise and sport science at Oregon State University where he was also the mountaineering instructor. He was a member of the Olympic Weightlifting Committee in 1968 and 1972. At age 70 he still had a 205kg deadlift and 175kg squat. His records for these lifts were 245kg and 220kg respectively, achieved at the age of 34, and again at 50. He was inducted into the USA Strength and Conditioning Coaches Hall of Fame.

If, as the saying goes, one should “never trust a skinny chef,” then when it comes to strength, power and endurance I’d trust the wisdom and experience of Pat O’Shea before I’d place value on the words and methods of someone who has never walked his talk.

I'd agree with that. And that's a philosophy of training I like to adhere to. With some of the humour and lack of tightarsedness that is central to PM thrown into the mix.

Yael Grauer
05-11-2007, 07:47 AM
I think you should do the P-Menu ten commandments instead. I'll start.

1. Thou shalt not eat grains.

Steve Shafley
05-11-2007, 07:52 AM
Ha!

Good point, Yael.

There is definitely a skew towards alternative nutrition practices here. While I disagree with some of them, I realize that there are definitely specific cases where these are necessary or desirable.

kevin mckay
05-11-2007, 07:56 AM
I like that Yael!

Thou shalt eat only green growing things berries and creatures thou can kill with a stick

Allen Yeh
05-11-2007, 08:07 AM
I like that Yael!

Thou shalt eat only green growing things berries and creatures thou can kill with a stick

Aren't Twinkies and donuts green when you pull them off the dessert tree?

no? :eek:

John Vernon
05-11-2007, 08:21 AM
3. thou shall never participate in cardio kickboxing...

Scott Kustes
05-11-2007, 09:39 AM
4. Thou shalt eat for only 6 hours of the day.

James Evans
05-11-2007, 09:48 AM
Talk of hero fitness brings to mind something I was going to post during the 300 hype.

Mark Twight has said that the guys in 300 needed to look like the lived off the land, like they actually fought for a living.

This makes me think of Daniel Day-Lewis as Hawkeye in Last of the Mohicans.

Here is some blurb from Wikipedia:

In 1992, three years after his Oscar win, The Last of the Mohicans was released. Day-Lewis' character research for this film was well-publicized; he reportedly underwent rigorous weight training and learned to live off the land and forest where his character lived, camping, hunting and fishing. He even carried a kentucky rifle at all times during filming in order to remain in character.

Day-Lewis was trained by a British ex-soldier called Richard Smedley. He trained the actors in Heat because Michael Mann wanted all the gunplay to look distinct from what Americans were used to. I have been told by soldiers that the film is authentically British in that respect (I think that moves into the realms of geekery). He also used to fitness editor for UK Men's Fitness.

I've read Smedley's account of the programme he designed for Day-Lewis and he states that the whole intention was to make the actor look like he lived off the land, that his rifle was but an extension of his body, that he in essence looked like a warrior not like Arnold in Conan. He made him carry the rifle everywhere until the weight became second nature. He carried it around the house from the moment he got up in the morning to the moment he went to bed in the evening. He ran with it.

Day-Lewis is quite intense...

Incidentally, after his role in The Boxer, and I give you some more blurb:

He followed that with Jim Sheridan's The Boxer as a former boxer and IRA member recently released from prison. His preparation included training for six months with former boxing world champion Barry McGuigan.

the trainers were so impressed that the suggested that he could have fought professionally.

That's attitude for you.

Ron Nelson
05-11-2007, 12:02 PM
That's nothing compared to how he prepared for "My Left Foot."
I hear he turned down, "My Left Foot; The Musical."

Commandment 3: Thou shalt not drink beer with the word "light" or "lite" attached to its name. Unless it's "Knock You on Your Ass Ale-Light."
That might be OK.

Robb Wolf
05-11-2007, 01:05 PM
LOL!

Good stuff. When Greg Everett and I went to Portland to get our fanny's kicked at Straight Blast Gym we talked at length about a Performance Menu Manifesto. Who we are, what we stand for...all that stuff. I think it's an interesting process and it can be helpful in focusing ones efforts. It may sound trite but what we boiled things down to was "use what works". We certainly have some biases. The OL's rock...sprinting good...CrossFit Kicks ass...paleo/zone/low carb nutrition delivers the goods. We have some general biases but wee just want to offer the best information available for what YOU want to do.

For example I'd really like to expand the endurance section. I personally have a bias against long endurance efforts but I would like to have experts comment on that arena and offer what I can via nutrition, strength training, pre-hab etc. If long distance running is your thing lets figure out ways to make you run faster, further and do it all injury free. The only consideration is results and perhaps an awareness that at the extreme edges of performance.

Our desire is to make this a place for cross-pollination so everyone can benefit. Draw on practical experience, keep an eye on the literature and be open to tinkering. If our biases prove to be myopic or just plain wrong, hopefully we have the integrity to admit our strikes, learn, refine and move forward. I think the key to this is keeping with concepts...as soon as we systematize things we have a Sacred Cow to appease. I can be borderline fanatical about the paleo diet...perhaps not borderline, perhaps full-on! But I'm aware of that and open to other approaches...It's just tough to get me excited about high carb diets, grains and legumes because Ive seen such dramatic improvement in health and performance. More later!

Daniel Myers
05-11-2007, 02:07 PM
Here's some things I've picked up from reading the forum. Not a manifesto, per se, but just some bullet points to expand upon.


The body is a natural machine, designed by time and the environment to do certain things well. We need to respect this fact.

Eat the foods that people have been eating successfully for millions of years, not the foods we've eaten more recently and less successfully.

Intermittent fasting, but I don't have any experience with this, so I'll defer to others.

Basic, focused strength training is an important part of programming. Improving strength improves most other athletic qualities.

Given a good strength base, it's relatively easy to develop strength-endurance. The reverse is not true.

Preference for big exercises and whole-body workouts: Olympic and power lifting, gymnastics, etc.

Brief and intense exercise produces a more general training effect than long-duration, low-intensity work. For most people, high-intensity is a more productive and efficient way to exercise.

The basics work.

Garrett Smith
05-11-2007, 04:23 PM
Very nicely put, Daniel!

Ken Urakawa
05-11-2007, 04:59 PM
With apologies to any and all around here that I stole these ideas from:

pick sh*t up. fast.
carry stuff.
put it over your head.
throw it.
run fast.
do that a lot.

Yael Grauer
05-11-2007, 05:03 PM
I like that, only I'd throw "heavy" in there somewhere.


pick sh*t up. fast.
carry stuff.
put it over your head.
throw it.
run fast.
do that a lot.

-Ross Hunt
05-11-2007, 05:40 PM
Highlighting the difference between training for power-endurance and training for peak power while still promoting cross-training and extensive use of circuits seems to be one thing that really sets this place apart from every other sites.

Danny John
05-12-2007, 10:39 AM
I'll add one. My daughter, Lindsay, a freshman shot putter (and Homecoming Princess) qualified for state on her last throw Thursday. Her sister, Kelly, got knocked out of qualifying for state on the last throw Thursday.

As Dad and Head Coach and friend of PM...

Get Back Up.

Ron Nelson
05-12-2007, 11:04 AM
Good one, Dan.

My 7th grader qualified for district finals as the 5th seed by winning our dual meet last Wednesday. She threw 27' 6". I don't think it was her last throw, but it was good enough anyway. She did this after tweeking her knee in the hurdles during the first meet.

I like the "get back up" advice.

Will Heffernan
05-13-2007, 05:55 AM
'Get Back Up' is great advice...better than 'Never Let Go'...because you never know what sort of complete idiot will take that advice too far.

Larry Lindenman
05-13-2007, 06:15 AM
This is a little overdone, but this site, more than others, abides by the phrase: "Absorb what is useful..." And the last part "...and make everything uniquely your own." Fits perfectly. No problems with the generalist, but also no problems with the specialist. If you want to be included into the mix, all ya got to be is effective! No Kool Aid or mind meld, just kick ass, be strong, be fast, and translate that to your field of endeavor: the platform, gym. court, field, track, road, or battlefield. Oh, and you could say "shit" here! Not that I would, but if needed...I could.

Mike ODonnell
05-13-2007, 07:27 AM
The "Get back up" reminds me of a line from Batman Begins..."Master Bruce....why do we fall down...so we can learn to pick ourselves back up"....so like we say in hockey, the more you get knocked down the quicker you learn to get back up and into the play again....

I like that the main focus here is Results....pure and simple....coming from many different backgrounds, philosophies and view points....stressing long term health in proportion to immediate performance....

That and they serve Guinness at the PM mixers on Fri night......"Ron...get back up on the bar stool and have another pint!"

Ron Nelson
05-14-2007, 08:17 AM
That and they serve Guinness at the PM mixers on Fri night......"Ron...get back up on the bar stool and have another pint!"

. . .if I had a nickel for every time I heard that. . .