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-   -   5x5 program for strength gain and fat loss? (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1312)

Brandon Enos 07-12-2007 11:33 AM

5x5 program for strength gain and fat loss?
 
Earlier this week I posted a thread asking about ME Black Box and metcons to keep my weight loss going and keep strength as well. With the responses there, and reading on the forums that someone said they had they're best fat loss success with a 5x5 program, I decided Id give it a go for a couple months.

Heres what I was thinking of starting on Monday:
MWF
A-1: (BB) Power Clean and Press – 5x5
A-2: (BW) Pull-up – 5x5
B-1: (BB) Back Squat – 5x5
B-2: (BB) Dead Lift – 5x5
C-1: Power Wheel Roll Out – 3x6
C-2: Hanging Knee Raise – 3x10

T,TH
A-1: (BW) Dip – 5x5
A-2: (BW) Chin-up – 5x5
B-1: (KB) Suitcase Style Squat – 5x5
B-2: (KB) Double Swing – 5x5
C-1: Side Bend – 3x8 l, r
C-2: Double Overhead Walk – 3 rounds

I have a couple of questions on it.

A) Should I divide up the Squats and Dead Lifts and do one of them on T,TH instead of the suitcase squat and swing? The main reason that I am doing the deadlifts is to hit the lower back and back of legs, but I know they hit the quads as well, so I am a little concerned.

B.) Given the amount of different exercises there, should I change the Power clean and press to just a regular overhead press? With squats and deadlifts, could the cleans be to much?

C.) Any other critiques on the program?

Dave Van Skike 07-12-2007 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon Enos (Post 16113)
Earlier this week I posted a thread asking about ME Black Box and metcons to keep my weight loss going and keep strength as well. With the responses they're, and reading on the forums that someone said they had they're best fat loss success with a 5x5 program, I decided Id give it a go for a couple months.

Heres what I was thinking of starting on Monday:
MWF
A-1: (BB) Power Clean and Press – 5x5
A-2: (BW) Pull-up – 5x5
B-1: (BB) Back Squat – 5x5
B-2: (BB) Dead Lift – 5x5
C-1: Power Wheel Roll Out – 3x6
C-2: Hanging Knee Raise – 3x10

T,TH
A-1: (BW) Dip – 5x5
A-2: (BW) Chin-up – 5x5
B-1: (KB) Suitcase Style Squat – 5x5
B-2: (KB) Double Swing – 5x5
C-1: Side Bend – 3x8 l, r
C-2: Double Overhead Walk – 3 rounds

I have a couple of questions on it.

A) Should I divide up the Squats and Dead Lifts and do one of them on T,TH instead of the suitcase squat and swing? The main reason that I am doing the deadlifts is to hit the lower back and back of legs, but I know they hit the quads as well, so I am a little concerned.

B.) Any other critiques on the program?

Too much.

I'd stick to 3 maybe 4 days a week. or an every other day format. For fat loss, you are getting way more bang from lowering kcal than tweaking your workouts or adding more effort....

Last year I lost 30 pounds and gained some strength along the way doing a a PTTP progression of 2 sets of 5 every day on DL and press. switched to 3 days a week of "one lift a day" ala Dan John and then switched back to a standard 5x5, 3 days a week. All of these work fine, the key is controlling your diet. With thsi much volume you are going to be a hungry mother....that won't help.

I'd say 5x5 three days a week, MWF, lot's of walking and other NEPA (non-excercise physical activity) and a clean diet will get you closer to you goal faster. the bonus is that this is a pretty "simple" program..not super stressful and you will get stronger.

Think Simple...nothing is easy but almost everyhting that works is simple.

alternatively, you can clean up your diet as best you can and hammer away at crossfit style work and get to the same place eventually. My feelign is that if you have a lot of weight to lose and want to gain strength, that is not the most effective way.....upshot is..

you can be strong, you can be skinny, or you can be a metabolic machine but you can't work on all three at once. maybe two at a time but not three.

Brandon Enos 07-12-2007 12:10 PM

That was one thing I was concerned about, keeping calories low on high volume, so three days a week will probably be better.

As far as diet, Ive done a very good job. With the exception of the 4th of July bbq, Ive followed a Fast-5/Paleo diet for the last month and a half. I dont think my calories have gone over 1,000 a day at all in that time period as well. In that time period, Ive lost ~30 pounds and am at 250 (I dont think Ive weighed 250 since my Jr year in high school). The rest of this week I am visiting my Grandparents until Sunday. For this reason Im going off the Fast-5, but Im sticking to the Paleo diet very well (only a few minor faulters).

Dave Van Skike 07-12-2007 03:39 PM

Congratulations on your progress.

Mike ODonnell 07-12-2007 05:13 PM

I agree, WAYYYY too much...3x a week is prob most you want to do with that workload...otherwise you risk overtraining, muscle destruction, immune system depression, thyroid crashing, etc....all that fun stuff. Less is more sometimes....actually most of the time. Go for FAT loss....not just weight loss....get plenty of protein to save those muscles....1000 cal a day seems really low...you might be surprised to add a few more calories in and see your weight loss...I mean fat loss...increase. You could also add in a refeed day...otherwise that metabolism will just slow down with the calorie defecit. You will see alot of people on here taking in 2500 cal, working out 2-3x a week, and still losing fat and gaining muscle....all on IF too....it's a wonderful thing once you get it down right. Don't be afraid to change things up to see how your body reacts....people grow more when they work out less....people lose fat once they get enough calories in from Paleo sources....etc..etc...

Brandon Enos 07-12-2007 05:19 PM

Yeah, I always just say weight loss even though thats not what I mean, I need to work on that. I dont care what I weigh so long as I get my body fat low (perferably under 10%).

Quick question though. What counts as non-exercise physical activity? Should it be constrained to walking, or can you do more active things like play basketball, KB juggling, etc?

Mike ODonnell 07-12-2007 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon Enos (Post 16169)
Quick question though. What counts as non-exercise physical activity? Should it be constrained to walking, or can you do more active things like play basketball, KB juggling, etc?

Whatever you like...one day could be basketball...one day hiking...etc....as long as your nutrition is right for your recovery and metabolism, then you can just do whatever you like....but wouldn't expect to do lots of high intensity work over and over and over....your body needs a break with more lower intensity esp if you are calorie defecit...

Here's a good article in general on training and types...
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/case-against-cardio/

Mark Joseph Limbaga 07-13-2007 03:50 AM

here's a good read on the 5x5

http://www.eclipsegym.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=57

just change some of the exercises to suit your needs

Chris Forbis 07-13-2007 04:17 AM

Sweet blog article MOD. I'm going to have to keep that one in my links to pass along to cardio freaks that want to argue...

Brandon Enos 07-13-2007 08:05 AM

I agree with Chris Mike, nice find. Now if we could only get more people to realize it.

Thanks for the article Mark. I had a good idea of how to do the 5x5 from what I read on mikemahler.com, but its good to see information on a program at its source. And I definatly will have to change a few exercises. The bench aggravates my shoulders more than anything else (plus I never have spotters, so Im always scared that Im gonna drop it on myself). And as far as dynamic rows, not even 100% sure what they are, so I think Ill just stick to my pullups and chinups.


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