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-   -   Deadlift progression for SS (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1771)

Kevin Perry 11-05-2007 02:27 PM

Deadlift progression for SS
 
Im a little confused as to the proper progression on the SS model for the deadlift in the novice programming. In it Coach Riptoe suggests warm-up sets for the squat and press/bench followed by 3 sets of 5. On the Deadlift he only states 1 set of 5. Should warm-up sets follow in the same manner as the other exercises?

Example:

115 x 5 x 2
135 x 5 x 1
165 x 3 x 1
195 x 2 x 1

225 x 1 x 5

Or is that more of a strain on the CNS instead of 1 x 5 after a few minutes of recovery from the second exercise?

Also, what is more beneficial on a MEBB platform following SS in a training method that would look like this:

5 days on 2 off

Mon & Fri: SS
Tue - Thur: CF Metcon focused

Would that be too taxing on the CNS and recovery or do you think it could work if proper rest and diet were in order?

Troy Archie 11-05-2007 10:07 PM

You got it right. Warm-up like normal and then fire off 5 reps for one set, anymore would probably be counter-productive. It's what I've been doing with good results and no burn out.

As for your plan, it would all depend on your goals and the potency of the metcons. I'd say dropping the Wednesday session in favor of rest a rest day could produce some good strength while keeping up your conditioning.

I'm not the most experienced or knowledgeable in that regard but I kind of like the idea and might try it down the road when I try to get my lungs back and lose my ass.

David Aguasca 11-05-2007 10:30 PM

Rip also suggests that you may not have to include as many warm-up sets for the DL, as you've already warmed up with the squat and press/bench press beforehand.

otherwise, i don't think a few warmup sets have the same strain on the CNS as a really heavy set.

Steven Low 11-06-2007 03:35 AM

As others have said, you probably don't need that many warmups for DL unless it's sky high already (over 300+ in which case Starting Strength most likely isn't for you because you're not a beginner). Probably only 2-3 sets. If you're above 225 lbs start with 135 then 225 then your work set would probably work well (at least that's how I do it).

Metcon does depend on what kind of metcon. Something like Linda (aka 3 bars of death) before an SS is probably not a good idea while on the other hand something more running-wise might be easier with the squats the next day barring a severe case of DOMS. It's definitely doable though where you can bring yourself up to that level to do any type of GPP in between although you might feel a bit rundown going into that last strength workout a lot.

Mainly, it depends on your goals here. If you want the GPP or need the GPP then do that otherwise if you're weak and want to bring up your numbers fast then solely focus on strength and neglect GPP. Well, even one GPP and 3-4 strength workouts would will keep GPP relatively medium-high if you wanted to focus more on strength but a good GPP base.

Steve Liberati 11-06-2007 05:36 AM

Nice reply Steven, thanks.

Kevin Perry 11-06-2007 09:29 AM

Well I don't really need CF type GPP, just basic running/sprinting and practice of pullups, pushups, and crunchs. Especially since i'll be starting training with an Oly-Coach in the Winter and any kind of heavy metcon would be counter productive.

Dropping the wednesday in favor of a rest day has been on my mind since I always feel better with more rest days. Trying to find the balance in all of this is difficult though and I need to keep SS since I have never made any good strength gains on CF alone.

Troy Archie 11-06-2007 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Low (Post 21829)
over 300+ in which case Starting Strength most likely isn't for you because you're not a beginner

That's not true. I've been Deadlifting +135kg(300lbs) x 5 with starting strength.
Squatting 100kg 5x3. Pressing seems to be my down fall; 41.5kg on the press and 65kg on the bench.

Steven Low 11-06-2007 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troy Archie (Post 21865)
That's not true. I've been Deadlifting +135kg(300lbs) x 5 with starting strength.
Squatting 100kg 5x3. Pressing seems to be my down fall; 41.5kg on the press and 65kg on the bench.

Is your progress linear? And what's your height and weight?

Linear progression when you're at less than 150 lbs might not happen on SS through 300 lbs DLs. Probably at around 150-180 lbs and then you'll probably see linear progress through about 350-400 lbs or so if you're >180 lbs. I was mainly saying that cause SS is built for your average scrawny guy that wants to gain muscle mass quick.. although it can be used for other purposes.

Troy Archie 11-06-2007 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Low (Post 21868)
Is your progress linear? And what's your height and weight?

I'm about 5'-10.5", 172lbs. Only been doing SS since the begining of October. Squats have been going up and up. It's a little too early to draw too many conclusions so far. I hadn't DL in nearly 6 months and I've always had problems with upper body strength so I expect gains to be slow moving. I'm in the middle of reading Practical Programming and the more I read the more I keep coming to the conclusion that I'm still a novice...

David Aguasca 11-06-2007 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troy Archie (Post 21865)
That's not true. I've been Deadlifting +135kg(300lbs) x 5 with starting strength.
Squatting 100kg 5x3. Pressing seems to be my down fall; 41.5kg on the press and 65kg on the bench.

damn. we're opposites on the upper body strength/lower body strength spectrum: squat-185lbs (83kg), DL-235lbs (107kg), Press-110lbs (50kg) all at roughly 140-145lbs BW.


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