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-   -   Jump Squat Questions (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1841)

Patrick Donnelly 11-30-2007 03:37 PM

Jump Squat Questions
 
Today I did a 275x3x5 round of jump squats, and I managed (just barely leaving the ground) but I have some questions about them...

1. How should you land? On the forefoot? Should you fall back to the heel as you descend? Should your foot position change at all?
2. Is it normal to feel a bit of discomfort in the knees while doing this? This is the most weight I've ever loaded on my back (more than I can backsquat, by far).
3. Is it better to go heavy and just barely leave the ground, or to go a bit lighter and higher?
4. Does anyone else love how PVC pipe reps between sets feel like you're flying?

Patrick Donnelly 12-05-2007 07:32 PM

Doodeedoodeedoo...

Anyone?

Jordan Glasser 12-05-2007 08:38 PM

I started to reply to this message when you posted, but was unsure of your background...... I was confused as to why you would be jump squatting more then you are squatting. Then I saw the video demo that you were emulating and didn't post. But, having said all that, I would have said the following:

Nothing should hurt you. Period.
Start light, and work your way up. That will help you determine just how to land. Yes, the forefront of your foot should hit first, followed by the entire foot. The lowering should be like you are squatting, and should be a natural, and ingrained motion. I can only imagine the knee pain of squatting on your toes, if that's what you were eluding to asking if your heel should hit the ground.
The question of leaving the ground, or flying, it depends on what YOU need to work on, and why YOU are doing this exercise. Meaning, in your quest of increasing power (the purpose of jump squats?), you may need more focus on either speed, or strength. A jump squat that is heavy, is probably not going to help you in the speed department. Neither will speed be helped if the jump squat is heavy and slow.
http://www.performancemenu.com/forum...uote=1&p=22936
That's the video you are working from. That is a world class lifter, doing something specific to help their lifts. It's hard to say how you fit into that equation. I often do jump squats and use them with my clients, we use much lighter weights, and use a full ROM. Nothing at all what Aimee is doing in the video. And nothing that hurts the knees. Small note here, I don't do these with the majority of my clients, because a perfect squat is needed before I would have them jump and have weight on their back:eek:

Hope this gets you started......


Jordan

Allen Yeh 12-06-2007 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Donnelly (Post 22718)
Today I did a 275x3x5 round of jump squats, and I managed (just barely leaving the ground) but I have some questions about them...

1. How should you land? On the forefoot? Should you fall back to the heel as you descend? Should your foot position change at all?
2. Is it normal to feel a bit of discomfort in the knees while doing this? This is the most weight I've ever loaded on my back (more than I can backsquat, by far).
3. Is it better to go heavy and just barely leave the ground, or to go a bit lighter and higher?
4. Does anyone else love how PVC pipe reps between sets feel like you're flying?

1. Try to do an air jump squat and land on your heel. Not very comfortable is it? Don't do this with a load on your back either. You should land in the same position you jumped from.

2. No it's not normal.

3. The intent is to move the bar fast, even if the reality is that the bar doesn't move fast. The load is something that is dictated by what you are doing them for.

4. Um doesn't pvc sets of squats always feel like your flying? heh.

Garrett Smith 12-06-2007 06:44 AM

If there's one exercise I think is designed to cause spinal problems, one you'll never catch me doing, it's weighted jump squats.

If my choice means I'll never be an Olympic athlete with a post-sport future of joint pain, so be it.

Patrick Donnelly 12-06-2007 01:42 PM

Re: Jordan
I'm doing them to try to build speed, but doing them heavy with "the intent is to move the bar fast, even if the reality is that the bar doesn't move fast," as Allen said.

I land on my forefoot, then come back to the heel, and squat with my weight over the midfoot. I wouldn't ever imagine squatting with my heels off the ground. The "discomfort" really isn't pain, and it doesn't last after the workout, but it does feel a bit weird. I can't explain it.

Re: Allen
Well, the PVC pipe feels even lighter than normal. Hahah.

Re: Garrett
They are dangerous even when doing them correctly?



I was thinking of doing jumping pistols instead (unweighted, of course), but they are much harder to note progress with. Hm. Maybe they'd be a better choice anyway.

Garrett Smith 12-06-2007 03:27 PM

Patrick,
As I'm not trying to set any world records nor do excessively high-risk activities in the pursuit of fitness, I think they are unnecessary.

I'm personally in pursuit of high-return, lower-risk exercises. I do think there is such a thing as "enough" strength for the things I want to do and the things I will unlikely encounter.

If someone can do jumping pistols, especially even moving further along Coach Sommers' progressions (pistol jumps to a box, pistol jumps for forward distance), I'd absolutely say that was enough strength.

Mainly I don't like the relatively large load spread over a relatively small area in jump squats, only to be combined with ballistic, gravity-fed movements.

Sure I think it works well in the short run to build explosiveness. I'm not in it for the short run, neither is my advice to others, so I would avoid it.

That being said, I think jumping squats or jumping pistols with weight added in the form of a well-fitting vest is much safer and smarter. Heck, just do Tabata squats with added weight, only going up in weight once 20 reps every round is reached. The X-Vest has a vest that goes up to 80#. That seems like enough to me.

Jordan Glasser 12-06-2007 04:25 PM

I can't help but agree with Garrett's perspective on this one. Sound advice, and survive to train another day!

Patrick Donnelly 12-06-2007 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garrett Smith (Post 23013)
That being said, I think jumping squats or jumping pistols with weight added in the form of a well-fitting vest is much safer and smarter. Heck, just do Tabata squats with added weight, only going up in weight once 20 reps every round is reached. The X-Vest has a vest that goes up to 80#. That seems like enough to me.

Luckily, I do have a well-fitting vest (MiR brand, 2-52#, cost $120 on e-Bay; gets my recommendations). Thanks for the advice.


Does anyone have a link to an article on Coach Sommers' pistol progressions?

Derek Simonds 12-07-2007 03:27 AM

I have been playing with the vertical pistol jumps and they are a riot. I haven't read Coach Sommers reccomendations just kind of got into because of the benefit for Allen. Some of the guys were talking about a KB guy and how he could do jumping pistols onto a box with 2 KB's and I thought well that is pretty cool.

I think if you start doing them you will find it is pretty easy to tell how you are progressing. I started jumping unto a box about 12 inches and now I am up to a 20 inch box.


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