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-   -   Strategy for fat loss - questions (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2438)

Tirzah Harper 05-01-2008 11:46 AM

Strategy for fat loss - questions
 
Iíd like to cut fat. Aesthetic reasons only, as my performance is increasing measurably and Iím feeling fine. What, you didnít think I was vain? Heck, Iím femaleÖwith the traditional female fat-deposit patterns, too.
I made it through a week and a half on the V-diet several weeks ago before I completely felt NOT WELL and called it off. Health first, vanity second, right? So I pretty promptly filled right back in what I had lost.
Since then, Iíve been emphasizing whole and unprocessed foods a la Michael Pollan; taking it easy on sugar and flour; but basically just eating without counting or anything. If it werenít for vanity, Iíd be fine! I feel great! I also started eating breakfast first thing again vs. waiting until nearly noon.
IFíing seems to affect me the same way it does George Mounce, in terms of slowing down my metabolism (5í4Ē, f, 112 lbs give or take a couple; Iíd like to lose at least five lbs. of bodyfat but not more than eight, probably. Iím not a mesomorph!).

I have a few limiting factors that I recognize:
One, Iím a foodie and I like to eat with my friends & family. So strict diet 100% of the time is doomed to failure. Strict diet 75% of the time would be tough but doable.
Two, I donít have the patience for Zoning when cooking for more than just me.
Three, I Ė did I mention lack of patience? Ė tend to lose hope quickly and give up on an eating pattern, probably before I really give it time (more than a couple of weeks) to notice results.
Four, I donít tend to notice results very well, as Iím not very food-sensitive or one of those people who can tell an extra half-pound anywhere on their body. I tend to go along obliviously and then do a double-take one day when I look in the mirror. I also can get away with eating a lot of junk without feeling bad, except for missing fresh & raw foods. This isnít a good thing.
Iím also mostly vegetarian, which actually doesnít seem to have any effect on my performance that Iíve noticed: I made gains while eating meat, and Iím making gains not eating meat.

Based on the above, any advice?
I plan to continue with whole + unprocessed + keeping sugars and flours intake low. Iím also planning to add in homemade kefir to my diet! Yum!
Iím thinking about eating in Zone proportions until dinner (breakfast, lunch, snack, with a little extra fat to stave off hunger) and then just going with whole + unprocessed then. Iím not sure if this is enough to make a difference (thatís six blocks plus dinner; Iíd be a ten-blocker doing strict Zone) or how long I should give it before re-evaluating how well it works.

I'm doing CF workouts approximately 4 times per week and adding in walking and running as I can (2-5 times per week, a couple miles maybe) to help with my very sedentary jobs.

Thanks in advance!

Mike ODonnell 05-01-2008 12:17 PM

Keep it simple...

- Eat the right foods for the right hormonal responses for fat burning
- Eat less calories to have a deficit daily
- Drink only water with lemon (no diet drinks)
- Don't overtrain...more is not better
- Keep a slower aerobic based active lifestyle (walking, hiking, etc...what does not promote excessive cortisol and muscle breakdown and can be done on a lower cal diet...jogging is not it)
- Lower carb/Mod protein and fat eating works best....for a reason
- Keep workouts short and intense 2-3x a week
- Enjoy your meals and if you need a "cheat" meal once a week...then do it...but once you eat for health and not emotional needs and wants...you may not need this...it's more a mental thing so you don't feel deprived...but it doesn't hit the key reason of food should be viewed for health first
- Eat for your hunger...if it's all the right foods you won't gain weight...if it's the wrong foods you WILL
- Eat healthy for fat loss before you even start attempt something like IF...as IFOC (IF on crap) will not work
- Remember slow and steady wins the race and looks the best! Quick solutions do nothing for lifestyle habbits (the danger of ANY diet)...and usually lead to a high % of people just gaining it all back

Garrett Smith 05-01-2008 12:32 PM

I have a hunch that deficient thyroid function is at the root of those who do not respond favorably to IF, especially with the slowed metabolism that has physically obvious signs. First place I would start is with an urine iodine test. Feel free to PM me if you'd like me to facilitate this.

Mike ODonnell 05-01-2008 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tirzah Harper (Post 30378)
5’4”, f, 112 lbs give or take a couple; I’d like to lose at least five lbs. of bodyfat but not more than eight, probably. I’m not a mesomorph!

Just saw this....to get lower BF is harder and harder once you get to a certain point. If you look at who does it best....figure models and bodybuilders...they do lower carb cycles and good amounts of slow-go cardio. Just saying....no way you are going to get low with a good amount of sugar and junk in the diet and not having a high amount of daily activity...just won't happen plain and simple (like I would love to fly but flapping my arms is not going to make it happen no matter how much I want it to)...you are now fighting deeper hormonal structures for losing that last bit of fat. If you go find and read the "Body Opus" (the cornerstone for all things fat loss from the days back) book from ebay or something...that is pretty much going to tell you the same thing. (as that was almost zero carb during the week and then carb up weekends with 2 glycogen draining workouts Mon/Tue....slow go cardio Wed/Thurs and a killer glycogen drainer on Fri with carb up). It works....and it is painful!

Tirzah Harper 05-01-2008 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike ODonnell (Post 30380)
Keep it simple...

- Eat the right foods for the right hormonal responses for fat burning

OK, going to read the article.
Quote:

- Eat less calories to have a deficit daily
yeah...dammit
Quote:

- Drink only water with lemon (no diet drinks)
No diet drinks. Ever. Coffee a few times a week, tea a few times daily - working to wean off the honey & milk.
Quote:

- Don't overtrain...more is not better
- Keep a slower aerobic based active lifestyle (walking, hiking, etc...what does not promote excessive cortisol and muscle breakdown and can be done on a lower cal diet...jogging is not it)
- Lower carb/Mod protein and fat eating works best....for a reason
- Keep workouts short and intense 2-3x a week
OK MODÖnow Iím going to be skeptical.
The leanest person I know works in a hard physical job five days a week and eats a fairly high-carb, low-protein diet. He feels good, looks good, and holds up well.
I honestly donít think that Ė unless I spent most evenings walking, all evening Ė I would get good results from short, high-intensity workouts ONLY 2-3 times per week. Iíve been doing that all winter (well, up to 4-5 times per week on occasion) and I put on weightÖbut then, I also wasnít doing much walking/hiking.
Quote:

- Enjoy your meals and if you need a "cheat" meal once a week...then do it...but once you eat for health and not emotional needs and wants...you may not need this...it's more a mental thing so you don't feel deprived...but it doesn't hit the key reason of food should be viewed for health first
- Eat for your hunger...if it's all the right foods you won't gain weight...if it's the wrong foods you WILL
- Eat healthy for fat loss before you even start attempt something like IF...as IFOC (IF on crap) will not work
these three things sound like I've been working towards, except I'm eating crap considerably more often than once a week, but less often than ever before.
Quote:

- Remember slow and steady wins the race and looks the best! Quick solutions do nothing for lifestyle habbits (the danger of ANY diet)...and usually lead to a high % of people just gaining it all back

Tirzah Harper 05-01-2008 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike ODonnell (Post 30388)
Just saw this....to get lower BF is harder and harder once you get to a certain point. If you look at who does it best....figure models and bodybuilders...they do lower carb cycles and good amounts of slow-go cardio. Just saying....no way you are going to get low with a good amount of sugar and junk in the diet and not having a high amount of daily activity...just won't happen plain and simple (like I would love to fly but flapping my arms is not going to make it happen no matter how much I want it to)...you are now fighting deeper hormonal structures for losing that last bit of fat....which is usually in the "hard to get places" dictated by more stubborn hormones other than insulin. Go find the "Body Opus" book on ebay or something...that is pretty much going to tell you the same thing.

:mad:
Not what I wanted to hear.;)
you're right, though, the last time I was lower than this was when I was kickboxing to the tune of 2-3 hours of pretty high-intensity workouts per week.

Mike ODonnell 05-01-2008 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tirzah Harper (Post 30389)
The leanest person I know works in a hard physical job five days a week and eats a fairly high-carb, low-protein diet. He feels good, looks good, and holds up well.

Bingo....you don't have that activity level to burn off constant influx of carbs...so really no comparison. You have to tailor your intake to YOUR lifestyle...so eat less carbs or up the activity....and notice his is a slower steady pace all day....as no one can sustain and recover from constant high intensity activity for long periods of time every day....brief periods of exertion maybe...but not consistent.

Side note: Skinny people can get diabetes, heart disease, inflammation issues, cancer and many other illnesses (I have seen it first hand with some people I have worked with). So just being "skinny" doesn't mean that a person's diet is not leading down a road of illness and diseases....the #1 enemy being sugar (from processed unnatural sources). Sugar = high insulin levels = increasing insulin resistance = increasing chronic inflammation = increasing risks of heart diseases = cell health compromise = cancer growth/spread = ....well you get the picture.

Mike ODonnell 05-01-2008 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tirzah Harper (Post 30390)
:mad:
Not what I wanted to hear.;)

The truth never is.... ;)

and if it was that easy....I would of been out of business long ago.

Tirzah Harper 05-01-2008 03:09 PM

So essentially, get the ingredients right before I start tweaking the quantities, as far as nutrition goes?
And...keep moving.

Mike ODonnell 05-01-2008 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tirzah Harper (Post 30397)
So essentially, get the ingredients right before I start tweaking the quantities, as far as nutrition goes?
And...keep moving.

When in doubt...less carbs or more activity...should work most of the time. That and like in the hormonal post I linked to above, learn to burn fat all day with the right hormonal signals of a good GH response from exercise/sleep and keeping your glucagon levels up (and not shut down by insulin spikes).


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