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-   -   Gaining without Milk! Need advice! (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2942)

ryan mac 08-25-2008 08:31 AM

Gaining without Milk! Need advice!
 
Milk is OUT! I had a completely debilitating allergy attack on Saturday morning. Looking to stream line the calories needed to meet my goals. I can provide as much detail as needed. I need to know the exact amount of daily calories needed, and the macro nutrient break down to be successful on this cycle.

Vitals:
6'2"
190lbs
36 years old

According to Fit Day:
BMI + daily activity level = 3,209 kcals
Lifting days will add another 500 to 900 kcals burned
Total = 3,700 to 4,100 kcals.

How much of a surplus do I need on calories to grow? Would it be acceptable/advisable to eat more calories ONLY on lifting days? Is it a bad idea for the macro nutrient break down to be 50% or more fat? Is there any reason to be consuming more than 200grams of protein per day, and would less on non lifting days be acceptable?

Looking for answers. I have already seen improvements. I want them to continue....but loosing the milk makes it more complicated. Thoughts?

Thanks,

Ryan

Derek Weaver 08-25-2008 03:20 PM

Eat more, all the time. Fat is good, carbs are okay, protein is obviously crucial and you'd be served well to shoot for at least 1 gram/total pound of bodyweight (most end up coming a bit short of this... thus, always shoot higher).

I'm not reminded of my favorite sig line (I believe it was Dave Van Skike's sig if I remember correctly, I'm weird like that)... perhaps not a direct quote but something like: Squat/Press/Pull, Eat, Rest, Repeat... that is all. (was it close?)

Timothy Holmes 08-25-2008 03:39 PM

Why did you think milk was mandatory? It helps because it's an easily consumed source of calories, but there are other ways if you can't get enough with whole foods.

On how much you need to eat: as much a you can. If you aren't feeling uncomfortable, you aren't taking in enough (I think Robb Wolf said that). After 2 weeks of this, you can assess what's going on. Depending on your goals, more lean mass gain and a little fat is better than a little pure lean mass gain.

On the fat ratio: there is no problem with 50% or more. Just make sure to take 1-2 days off the fat, so it contributes to mass gain rather than being released as heat. Rest days would be a good opportunity to do this.

On the protein: the ratio of macronutrients isn't really important, and the amount of protein is debatable, but generally 1.5-2.5g/lb BW is recommended.

These are guidelines. Ultimately, it's what works for you. So be sure to record everything.

Dave Van Skike 08-25-2008 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Weaver (Post 37682)
Eat more, all the time. Fat is good, carbs are okay, protein is obviously crucial and you'd be served well to shoot for at least 1 gram/total pound of bodyweight (most end up coming a bit short of this... thus, always shoot higher).

I'm not reminded of my favorite sig line (I believe it was Dave Van Skike's sig if I remember correctly, I'm weird like that)... perhaps not a direct quote but something like: Squat/Press/Pull, Eat, Rest, Repeat... that is all. (was it close?)


hey..did my fifteen minutes already start? I was hoping to be better looking once I got famous....


milk is awesome but some people don't drink it..or they stink when they do or look like crap when the do....this is not fair.

I once saw a muscular vegan? I know weird huh? I think he eats a lot of nuts. The last time I looked nuts had a lot of good stuff in them.

Derek Weaver 08-25-2008 05:02 PM

Whoops, that should say I AM, (instead of not) reminded....

Yes Dave, your 15 minutes of fame have officially started.

I just remembered that I saw Lyle respond to someone noting that a UD 2.0 approach to bulking could result in a "clean" bulk (minimal to no fat gain) or some other cyclical approach. It should be noted that I don't know much if anything about UD 2.0, but what I do know... is that everyone else that I've seen has used it to get from lean, to really freaking lean.

Perhaps NHE, AD or something else could be a source to check out.

Still comes down to eating way more... lifting heavy... resting a lot.

Just thought I'd throw out the idea of a "clean bulk"... I think I've seen that thrown around here in the past.

Arien Malec 08-25-2008 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Weaver (Post 37689)
I just remembered that I saw Lyle respond to someone noting that a UD 2.0 approach to bulking could result in a "clean" bulk (minimal to no fat gain) or some other cyclical approach.

The UD 2.0 approach for bulking (and Lyle is very minimal on the details) would look very similar the Anabolic Diet: high fat, very low carb consumption with adequate protein, and a low fat, high carb glycogen refeed once weekly.

Derek Weaver 08-25-2008 05:45 PM

Nice, I kind of thought that's what it would look like. Lyle is very minimal on details of such a strategy. Not sure if it's because he has plans for a book on the subject, or if he just doesn't want the program getting f'd up by people that don't really get it. Or maybe it's both.

ryan mac 08-25-2008 06:03 PM

Thanks for the responses. Sounds like it's impossible for me to eat to much.

I'll keep track of my intake and results.

Mike ODonnell 08-25-2008 08:50 PM

Fat is your friend.....eat tons of it.

Protein may need to be higher...some grow at 1g/lb lean mass....others 1.5g/ls....I think a higher fat diet (esp with plenty of fats from butter, meat and eggs) may require less protein.

If you need to add in shakes....to get the calories in, then do so. Just drink them WITH meals....not to replace them. Things like protein+coconut oil+almond butter can be a tasty high calorie meal. But eat real food too!

Allen Yeh 08-26-2008 04:39 AM

Coconut milk can be your friend during this time.


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