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-   -   Food Choice Vs Zone Proportions (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3109)

Kelly Frankson 10-02-2008 10:52 AM

Food Choice Vs Zone Proportions
 
Looking for support to dispute a claim made by the owner of Crossfit Vancouver

The claim:
You have heard the horrors that sugar and processed food of any kind will kill you, your children and all of man kind. This is both true and not true. Brace yourself for the next statement. You can get great results from eating beef and beer

Now before you go off half cocked and send me tons of hate mail......listen closely.
You do need the micro-nutrients (vitamins minerals etc) from "Good Carbs"(Vegetables and fruits) and if you based your carbohydrate consumption solely on chocolate you will die of scurvy.

Having said that, it is more important to balance your macro nutrients (Protein, Fat, Carbohydrates) and dial in overall portions than to obsess over every micronutrient. If you are eating exactly the amount of blocks of food you need for peak performance then you don't necessarily need to have all your carbohydrates come from vegetables and fruits.

It would be best if we all got exactly the right amount of food each day and that all of our carbohydrates came from fruits and veggies, but the people at Cf headquarters (including my mentor Greg Glassman) swear by the zone.....not necessarily a paleo diet.

What does that mean for you: If you are going to eat some bread, pasta, potatoes, (god forbid...scotch) then you had better have the ratio's (fat, protein, carbo's - 30/30/40) and quantities NAILED. Eating 5 cups of pasta or a big bag of chips or 3 chocolate bars with a steak will fatten you up like a christmas ham.

My View: I think its more important to eat cleanly and if you are eating cleanly it takes a whole lot of food to over eat. If you are wasting your blocks with crap, your body will not be able to process it properly, wasting a lot of the good nutrients that you are consuming, and energy levels will drop and the performance gains wont necessarily there. There are a select few in this world who can eat what ever they want and see results, most of us can't.

This was refuted with:The performance numbers speak otherwise the ratio is the most important part

Entire post is here:
http://www.crossfit.ca/index.php/Mai...cro_nutrients/

Would love to hear others thoughts

Allen Yeh 10-02-2008 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelly Frankson (Post 40019)

This was refuted with:The performance numbers speak otherwise the ratio is the most important part

I was lost at this part. The performance numbers on athletes who were either doing Paleo or zoning with crap?

To distill what was said:

This person believes that zoning with crap as long as the proportions are ok is more important than eating cleanly, right?

For example:
So if I had a slushee mixed in with protein powder and olive oil, to the 30/30/40 ratio...that would be better than actually eating a clean meal (40/10/50 for example) that may not necessarily be the 30/30/40.

Kelly Frankson 10-02-2008 11:03 AM

yup, that is exactly what he is saying.

sarena kopciel 10-02-2008 11:35 AM

Kelly, this truly has been argued ad nauseum. I think its time to give up and let people figure it out for themselves!

Allen Yeh 10-02-2008 11:50 AM

Ok here is my take on it for whatever it's worth as I don't train people for a living anymore and when I did I was advocating the bb'ing type eating style of 6 meals a day...etc

We are comparing Zone 30/30/40 against paleoish eating(not strict paleo but just cleaner eating but not necessarily 30/30/40)

I looked over the comments and kind of find his "contest" a little bit ridiculous. How are you going to take 2 different people that need to get into shape with different diets and then declare victory based on who is leaner and performs better at the end? That would be assuming both these people have the same drive/determination/discipline and same work ethic and same just about everything else in order to determine if diet is affecting things.

For all he says about research/testomonials and all that, um what? For everything he points out you can find things that shoot that down just as quickly. For every great Zone athlete, you'll be able to find some paleoish athlete that is great too. It's been my observation amongst longer time CrossFitters that Zone works great....to begin with but a lot of people have adapted it from that such as the Athletes Zone which is way higher on fat blocks and lower on carb blocks. How can the 30/30/40 be magic if people don't end up sticking with that?

In regard to clients, I imagine you would have a easier time with clients sticking with cleaner eating than with the Zone, frankly because the Zone becomes a huge pain in the ass after a while. I think the Zone is great for learning portions and how much food is what but do I think a person NEEDS the Zone to get leaner? No, I think adherence and sustainibility should be just as important as short term results. If I went on the Zone tomorrow I know I'd lose some bodyfat...etc but would I be able to stick with the 30/30/40 Zone forever? Heck no. Been there done that. I think a person would have a easier time with cleaner eating as a lifestyle, eat proteins + veggies or fruit, if it has ingredients you can't pronounce try not to eat them. Cheating is done by both camps so we'll just assume there will be "cheat" days no matter which one you do.

Robb has some great stuff on his blog one post is here:
http://robbwolf.com/?p=101
http://robbwolf.com/?p=110

PM#30 has Robb's article about 42 Ways to Skin the Zone which has some good stuff too.

Hope this helps.

Garrett Smith 10-02-2008 12:19 PM

Contradiction right here:

Quote:

You do need the micro-nutrients (vitamins minerals etc) from "Good Carbs"(Vegetables and fruits) and if you based your carbohydrate consumption solely on chocolate you will die of scurvy.

Having said that, it is more important to balance your macro nutrients (Protein, Fat, Carbohydrates) and dial in overall portions than to obsess over every micronutrient.
Note that a micronutrient deficiency (which is determined by eating the proper foods) can cause disease and even kill someone if it gets bad enough.

The argument that is being made here always has to be taken to an extreme. If the ratio is the most important, why not make it simple and eat...
Soy protein
Margarine
High fructose corn syrup
...in a 40/30/30 ratio, maybe throw in a crappy drugstore multivitamin (just to cover our bases). Um, I hope one can see that this won't work.

The higher priority, if one wants to be healthy, will always be the types of food one chooses to eat. Ratios are fine-tuning, and of a lower priority.

Go talk to some centenarians. See if they EVER counted their ratios.

Gant Grimes 10-02-2008 01:53 PM

He's right, Kelly.

The farther you get from Paleo sources, the stricter you should be...if counting blocks is your thing.**

The Zone works for fat loss because of caloric restriction; it works for energy and performance because of the added fat.

Double your steak intake, swap grains for beer, and munch a few greens. Lift heavy and rest well. You'll be fine.

**You don't have to have these "nailed," either. Learn about food, learn about your body, and don't sweat the pesky stuff.

Garrett Smith 10-02-2008 02:37 PM

If you put the wrong type of gas in a car, it doesn't matter when you put it in or how much...


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