Catalyst Athletics Forums

Catalyst Athletics Forums (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/index.php)
-   Fitness, Strength & CrossFit (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   Eccentric/Deceleration training (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=311)

Mike ODonnell 12-28-2006 09:47 AM

Eccentric/Deceleration training
 
I found this interesting, and made me think to pose the question...What is people's opinion on rapid eccentric training/deceleration training, what do you find it most useful for, and how often would you encorporate it into a program?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=BTb13TqL2...related&search
...although the Bosu thing at the end..why do I picture my hands sliding off and my face smashing into it.

Robb Wolf 12-28-2006 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike ODonnell (Post 2453)
I found this interesting, and made me think to pose the question...What is people's opinion on rapid eccentric training/deceleration training, what do you find it most useful for, and how often would you encorporate it into a program?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=BTb13TqL2...related&search
...although the Bosu thing at the end..why do I picture my hands sliding off and my face smashing into it.


I like this type of training...I've coined a unique term for it. Olympic Weight lifting! I know this might start a pissing match but the Elite fitness guys are great at cooking up stuff that is almost like Olifting...without Olifting! The band front squats/back squats are cool...what about cleans and snatch balances? Bands to increase rate of acceleration while jumping off a box? How about jumping off a taller box so Vmax at impact is greater?

I guess I'm just a simpleton but all the bands, chains and what-not of the PL'ing world (mainly WestSide) seems like a lot of gear and gizmos compared to learning the Olifts, box jumps, some glute ham work and learning the elements of tumbling like snap downs and round offs. I think the deceleration training is legit but having PL'ed and OL'ed I think more is to be gained, particularly for athletic endeavors, by learning the OL's and basics of tumbling.

The pistol whipping may now commence!

Greg Everett 12-28-2006 11:15 AM

I agree with Robb for the most part. Dude is doing those squats with 50 kg (110 lb). Lame. Watch any O-lifter and the typical squat will have a rapid eccentric component, but with real loads (I was watching junior Colin Ito squat 210 kg or so for 10 sets of triples last week).

The BOSU thing looks more like party trick, although I can see the benefits since it's rare to see that horizontal upper body eccentric absorption. BOSUs just rub me the wrong way, however.

The sit-up and glute-ham things are interesting I guess, but not exactly revolutionary or unique in terms of stimulus.

Scott Kustes 12-28-2006 04:42 PM

Robb/Greg/other trainers...how do you feel about the static situp/back xtn things?

Greg Everett 12-28-2006 04:48 PM

I like static work for developing stability, so having to absorb forces while in a static position strikes me as a good idea. My concern with the exercises in that video is that isometric training really only improves strength in the position worked--so for the ab one, that single exercise may have limited applicability. I like russian twist type work, hollow rock, L-sit, etc.

Neal Winkler 12-28-2006 05:46 PM

For real doggs.

If you just do Olympic lifting then you can train acceleration and deceleration in one movement.

Dave Van Skike 12-29-2006 11:40 AM

"I guess I'm just a simpleton but all the bands, chains and what-not of the PL'ing world (mainly WestSide) seems like a lot of gear and gizmos compared to learning the Olifts, box jumps, some glute ham work and learning the elements of tumbling like snap downs and round offs."

I thought the purpose of the bands, chains etc in PL'ing was to hammer out the weak spots in the individual's lift or to provide a different training stimulus/variant on the lift (same but different Pavel trademarked, copyrighted blather blather) in order to allow the athlete to continue working at close to max percentages without going stale.

Otherwise, I think your right. Bands etc looks like a bunch of interesting toys, but comparitlvely worhtless for teh beginner to intermediate strength athlete.

Conversely, I know DJ speaks highly of front squats with chains but maybe his purposes are different.

The bosu ball thing is strange to me. I'm not sure I get it.

Steve Shafley 12-29-2006 11:57 AM

Decent vid overall.

I do have some similar positions as Robb and Greg though. Those band drop squat variations are very similar to olympic lifts. The only reason I could think of decoupling the movements is that it's specific for training deceleration and the absorption of force, but, that raises the question of why not do a clean or a snatch? You'd get the concentric action of the posterior chain as well as the deceleration for the same time commitment.

I've been reading Boyle's "Functional Training for Sport" and he's got some decent progressions for deceleration training using jumps and plyometrics, and that type of movement training seems more valuable for athletes than the one-planar stuff shown in the video.

Training to absorb force with the arms is much trickier. I'd imagine that doing that bosu ball work is at the end of a whole chain of progressively stressful exercises.

Some of the "Darksiders" have their heads in the sand (and up their asses) regarding some of the commandments handed down by Louie Simmons and the Elite FTS guys. I don't think they realize that Louie's training ideas are under continual evolution, and in most cases, are specific to equipped powerlifting training.

Dave Van Skike 12-29-2006 04:10 PM

I hope I'm not coming off as obtuse but, seriously. Why? What is the purpose of decelerative bosu bumping? or decelerating a weight in this fashion other than to improve olympic type lifts. I don't grok the application of these knowledges.

Steve Shafley 12-29-2006 05:26 PM

Maybe it's a minority type opinion, but the ability to safely absorb force, with or without redirecting it is an important quality for contact sports.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:53 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.