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-   -   Core Performance - Sport Specific (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=322)

Elliot Royce 12-30-2006 07:27 PM

Core Performance - Sport Specific
What's the view on Core Performance's sport specific programs? I tried the hockey one in the past: it was excellent in terms of making sure you cover all the bases but I got a bit bored after a while.

In a sense, it's the complete opposite of a CF workout because each workout is very complicated, with different phases (prehab, movement prep, strength, etc.). In this way everything is segmented - conditioning is 14 minutes of interval training, strength is 15 minutes of lifting, etc. On the other hand, it does seem much more targeted. If anyone is interested, you can do a 7 day trial and select the sport you know best to see what's recommended.

Mike ODonnell 12-31-2006 12:46 PM

Remember their programs are probably meant for athletes who train up to 3-4 hours a day. So take what you like from them and add them in. I would add in a few exercises here and there after my main lifts (DL, Squat, etc) or do it on an off day. Unless you are going pro or rehabbing an injury, just use what you feel works for your sport. Ex, for hockey I like the lunges in all directions to keep my hips open and flexible.

Elliot Royce 12-31-2006 01:25 PM

Good advice, Mike. They do tailor them down but I think 20 minutes of strength training per workout is not going to get me very far.

"Going pro" - not likely!

We've talked about this before. I think you advised getting Mike Boyle's book, which I did. Seems like I could add in some of his level 1 exercises and get the same effect as the Core Performance stuff. What do you think?

Steve Shafley 12-31-2006 02:08 PM

I was really quite pleased with Boyle's book.

Mike ODonnell 12-31-2006 03:05 PM

There's alot of crossover I am sure with Boyle's program and Core Performance. I like Core Performance's warmup sequences...I like Boyle's exercises. Remember Boyle is comes specifically from a hockey background in training...and his exercises are geared towards that. He likes alot of single legged based exercises which I agree are essential for sports (Outside the big lifts).

Elliot Royce 12-31-2006 03:34 PM

How would you integrate some of Boyle's stuff with Crossfit? Sub for the warmup or add in at the end?

Or sub single legged exercises for double whenever possible in the CF repertoire (1 armed pullups would be beyond me though!)

Robb Wolf 01-02-2007 11:09 AM


Originally Posted by Elliot Royce (Post 2536)
How would you integrate some of Boyle's stuff with Crossfit? Sub for the warmup or add in at the end?

Or sub single legged exercises for double whenever possible in the CF repertoire (1 armed pullups would be beyond me though!)

I'd be interested to hear Steve and Mike's thoughts on this. I'm not familiar with boyles work...need to get the book apparently.

Steve Shafley 01-02-2007 11:58 AM

Unless something is designed to be used with the WOD, as written (like Rutherford's ME Black Box), it's not an easy drop in.

Let's say the WOD is:

Squat: 5x5

Would you want to warm up with intense work on split-squats, step-ups, bulgarian split-squats (leg elevated), or pistols?

I'd say "No." Your main focus would be to reach a high level of performance on the 5x5 squats.

You could very successfully follow up the 5x5 squats with unilateral work, though.

You have to go back to the original question: What are you trying to do?

If your answer is "to be as ready as possible for anything that come up" then your course of action is going to be significantly different than if your answer is "I want to total 1800 lbs in equipped powerlifting competition" or "I want to make the regional select-side for rugby".

Despite all the suggestions to the contrary, specialization is a requirement for high level compeititon or performance. If your goals are specialized, then your training towards that goal is going to be specialized.

If that goal is a sub-120 second Fran, then you are still going to be specializing in improving certain aspects of your performance to reach it...namely pull up ability, and maximal strength on the thruster (which is going to lead to better and faster gains in the strength-endurance or power-endurance capabilities)

Elliot Royce 01-02-2007 12:38 PM

Excellent points, Steve. I'm a 44 year old recreational athlete so I'm never going to be going pro! However, what motivates me most to exercise -- besides feeling good -- is my adult hockey. And, unlike a lot of sports which do focus on a narrow set of skills, hockey involves most parts of your body. People will argue the case but I think hockey players are among the most conditioned athletes there are: strong, agile, explosive, lots of stamina, etc. Perhaps not marathon runners, but able to do fairly well across a lot of dimensions.

I don't get very motivated by the thought of maxxing out all the CF workouts. It would be great to be in such great shape that I could max them out, but that is just not a motivating idea for me. CF for me is a means to an end.

I've asked Mike Boyle to design a hockey-specific program for me. I'd like to try to integrate that with some of the CF workouts if I can. For instance, instead of 400m run plus thrusters, do intervals (45s on, 120s off) for 15-20 min on a spin bike then do thrusters. That's got to be transferable to hockey, right?

I mean Coach Glassman is just making these workouts up. It's pretty easy to see the pattern behind them and they're not Gospel. There is no magic to 5x400m runs - intervals on a bike or rowing or something else is just as beneficial, no? What I see as the "hidden gems" of Crossfit are:

- intensity
- CFWU: a lot of people just diss Pullups, pushups, dips, etc. and focus on lifting big weights. Clearly a mistake since it neglects the integration of different parts of the body.
- O lifting: Boyle feels that you get all of the benefit from doing these from the hang rather than the floor, at least unless you're an O lifter. Doing them from the floor risks injury for many of us.
- variety: Coach G. keeps things interesting.

PS - I only discovered Boyle recently but he was the S&C coach for BU for 17 years and for the Boston Bruins for 10 years and for the 1998 US women's Olympic ice hockey team. Mike O'Donnell put me on to him.

Steve Shafley 01-02-2007 12:50 PM

Boyle has a lot of experience with hockey players.

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