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-   -   Squat - O'lifting vs P'lifing and Hip Flexors (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3476)

Brian Lawyer 12-09-2008 02:22 PM

Squat - O'lifting vs P'lifing and Hip Flexors
 
For the past couple months I have been training on a hybrid O'Lifting and SS program. I use High bar position for Back squats. I have done a high bar O'Lifting squat my whole life. It wasn't until I read SS that I realized there was another low bar position used for Power lifting. But I still prefer High bar.

Lately my hip flexors have been really sore. I thought this was a result of the volume of squat workouts I have been doing. If I'm not doing back squat or OH squats, then I'm doing snatches (another OH squat) and C&J's (another Front Squat). It has been suggested to me to do a SS style low bar squat which may help my hip flexors. What do you all think?

Side notes - I work out with an O'lifting coach at a crossfit affiliate. No one has ever complained about my squat form. As far as I know, I have the basics down, knees wide, good depth, no buttwink, knees not traveling out past my toes, etc., etc. The only thing a coach ever pointed out to me is I could stand to bounce more out of the bottom. I got a pair of Do-win shoes which solved that problem real quick.

Kevin Perry 12-09-2008 02:26 PM

Is there any pain? I doubt it would simply be because of the high bar vs. low bar position but rather due to flexibility that cold be solved through some simple stretches and foam rolling.

Steven Low 12-09-2008 02:31 PM

Sore hip flexors mean they're being worked. That's because the hip flexors counteract the hamstrings which would cause posterior pelvic tilt during the lift. Posterior pelvic tilt at the bottom portion of a squat/OHS will cause rounding of the lumbar spine. So yes, you want your hip flexors to be working -- they help maintain the lordic curvature of the lumbar spine and keep the pelvis anteriorly rotated). That's probably a lot of volume if they're constantly sore though might wanna take a few days off.

If you're concerned about them getting too tight then you need to stretch them.

Yuen Sohn 12-09-2008 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Lawyer (Post 45069)
Lately my hip flexors have been really sore. I thought this was a result of the volume of squat workouts I have been doing. If I'm not doing back squat or OH squats, then I'm doing snatches (another OH squat) and C&J's (another Front Squat).

Brian,
I get distractingly sore hip flexors every once in a while. It's usually a sign I need to back off from training a bit or recover better between sessions.

Lifts-wise, what does your volume look like now (sets/reps/days)?
How's your recovery (sleep, stretching, foam rolling, etc.)?

Edit: Agree with Steven and Kevin

Daniel Labuz 12-09-2008 02:36 PM

My hip flexors always seem sore, maybe I do need to take some days off (took 2 easy days last week). Or maybe less rowing and squats, a lot of rowing seems to do a number on my hip flexors

Brian Lawyer 12-09-2008 03:19 PM

Could be just because my hip flexors are doing what they are supposed to do. I just started in the last two months really working my squats again. The 6 months prior, I was on another workout program which revolved around various lunges. I would think after two months my Hip Flexors would be used to it though. But from the above posts, it sounds like hip flexors being sore is common.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Perry (Post 45070)
Is there any pain? I doubt it would simply be because of the high bar vs. low bar position but rather due to flexibility that cold be solved through some simple stretches and foam rolling.

No pain. I could be in denial, but I think I have pretty good flexibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuen Sohn (Post 45073)
Brian,
Lifts-wise, what does your volume look like now (sets/reps/days)?
How's your recovery (sleep, stretching, foam rolling, etc.)?

3 to 4 days a week. usually Two O'Lifting and one SS day. O'Lifting workouts are all over the place. sometimes I do 10 singles of Snatch and CJ. I did a couple work outs of Shrug unders 3 x 5, OH Squat (six second pause at bottom) 3 x 5, Snatch pulls 3 x 5

Recovery: Sleep is what it is. roughly 7 hours
I am a big fan of cold plunges. I'll empty my whole ice box in the bath tub. If I am incredibly sore from a workout I'll just do DROM, stretch and foam roll on my recovery days.

Júlíus G. Magnússon 12-09-2008 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Lawyer (Post 45069)
...knees not traveling out past my toes...

Why not?

Brian Lawyer 12-09-2008 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Júlíus G. Magnússon (Post 45093)
Why not?

Cause Rip's book, SS, said that is bad...then again he teaches a P'lifting squat.

My knees travel out about an inch or so in front of toes. I've checked before by placing a block of wood in front of my toes and squatting so my knees touch the board but don't knock it over. This is also a good way to check to make sure all your forward knee travel takes place in the first 1/3 to 1/2 of the squat and the last half of the the squat consists of your hips sitting down. But that is from Rip's book to.

So who knows?

Daniel Labuz 12-09-2008 05:44 PM

I always thought if you're doing high bar or Olympic squats you pretty much have to have knees over toes. You can't have the weight over no base such as your feet because of the bar position and the straightened upper body. at least that's what I've come to realize

Brian DeGennaro 12-09-2008 05:45 PM

In order to achieve the appropriate position in a high-bar squat your knees are going to be well ahead of the toes, as far as ankle flexibility permits. You need that very upright, low hip posture to get the most bang-for-your-buck when squatting for weightlifting. The hamstrings aren't creating major hip extension as they are in the low-bar squat, but they are still stretching and contracting while high-bar squatting. The emphasis is just placed much more on the quads and glutes.

Also note that on really heavy back (or front sometimes) squats, you can see weightlifters shoot their hips back for a very slight portion of the movment, but then they shove their hips back under their heels. That's really the only time the hamstrings have a major contribution to the movement.


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