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-   -   PL/OL combo program? (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3598)

Jonathan Dunn 01-03-2009 12:31 PM

PL/OL combo program?
 
Happy New Year everyone!

I have been invited to participate in a PL competition in March of this year by the gym owners where I train. I'm really flattered, but I think these guys have squatted a little too heavy and busted a few too many vessels. Anyway, I'm seriously considering the offer and need to alter my training soon in order to compete. I've never been in either a PL or OL competition, but I do want the experience of competing. There are no local OL comps, and the PL meet is still a couple of hours drive from here (Alabama). My deadlifts are decent (last time, about 2 months ago, 400# at the end of a training session...thanks to all the OLs). My squats are of the OL (high bar, shoulder width stance, deep), not PL (low bar, wide stance, vertical shins, almost horizontal back, parallel) variety and only 300# thus far. I don't bench, so I'm guessing about 225-250...maybe. I've done some close grip, bottom position bench presses in a rack to develop pushing power, but no traditional benches.

So, am I nuts for even considering this, given that I really love OL and wish to compete in OL one day? It would be a 3 month training period where i would need to focus on the PLs. Can I mix the PL and OL? There would be some carryover, I think, with the strength development, and I can always use more strength. What would be a good program to pursue, should I go with the PL competition?

Thanks guys. And if this is stupid or insane to pursue, tell me. I can handle it. Really.

Patrick Yeung 01-03-2009 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Dunn (Post 46914)
Happy New Year everyone!

I have been invited to participate in a PL competition in March of this year by the gym owners where I train. I'm really flattered, but I think these guys have squatted a little too heavy and busted a few too many vessels. Anyway, I'm seriously considering the offer and need to alter my training soon in order to compete. I've never been in either a PL or OL competition, but I do want the experience of competing. There are no local OL comps, and the PL meet is still a couple of hours drive from here (Alabama). My deadlifts are decent (last time, about 2 months ago, 400# at the end of a training session...thanks to all the OLs). My squats are of the OL (high bar, shoulder width stance, deep), not PL (low bar, wide stance, vertical shins, almost horizontal back, parallel) variety and only 300# thus far. I don't bench, so I'm guessing about 225-250...maybe. I've done some close grip, bottom position bench presses in a rack to develop pushing power, but no traditional benches.

So, am I nuts for even considering this, given that I really love OL and wish to compete in OL one day? It would be a 3 month training period where i would need to focus on the PLs. Can I mix the PL and OL? There would be some carryover, I think, with the strength development, and I can always use more strength. What would be a good program to pursue, should I go with the PL competition?

Thanks guys. And if this is stupid or insane to pursue, tell me. I can handle it. Really.

Just for starters, I dont know anything about this subject, and wont say anything relevant.

But, how much do you weight? Your numbers are similar to mine, with a much heavier bench though, and lighter squat. Mine is terrible.

I was thinking of maybe competeing if I kept at it for a few more months and kept getting stronger.

Jonathan Dunn 01-03-2009 02:07 PM

Patrick,

I'm 6'2" and currently weigh 194#. If i stay at this weight, i would lift in the 198# class. I'm also 35, so I would like to think I'd be in a "submaster" or old man's division.

The guy that asked me to enter said that it was about a 1000# total that won the 198# last year. It is a totally drug free event, with both "raw' and "equipped" divisions. I'd definitely be in the raw category, as I don't even have a belt.

I definitely want to enter, but I do not wish to screw up any of the OL i've been doing since 18 August 2008, nor any of my metcons (I've recently started to see great improvements in my abilities to do KPUs, box jumps, sprints, ring dips, etc). Now if I can do a hybrid with a temporary emphasis on PL, then I'm gonna go for it.

Garrett Smith 01-03-2009 02:26 PM

I've toyed around with the idea of entering a 100% RAW Federation (can't wear practically anything other than the singlet!) meet in April.

I'm doing my OL / gymnastics / yoga program right now. If I decide to enter, the most I'm going to do to prepare is one day per week of a SS-style workout (ie. 3 x 3-5 of squats and bench, 1 set of DLs if I even want to do them, they suck a lot out of me) simply to prepare myself for the movements (mainly for the bench).

There's a possibility of my prep only being a couple of sets of bench.

Note that you don't have to go out to win it, that's your call. You can always squat OL style in a PL meet, so that prep could be hacked. If you know how to DL, your OL takes care of the pull training.

If you love OL, then do the PL for S&Gs or don't bother IMO.

Jonathan Dunn 01-03-2009 02:50 PM

Dr G,

What are S&G's? Sorry, I had to ask. I do appreciate the advice, especially about not trying to go all out and win, but to get the experience of competition.

Are lifters allowed to squat in any way as long as they go below parallel and don't allow the bar to slide down the back while lifting?

I see your wisdom in the one day a week SS. Maybe I should continue to follow CA WOD, but do the PLs on Saturday instead of heavy OL. That way I can continue to progress with my OL and do heavy PL training on Saturdays. What do you think?

By the way, love Tuscon. I was out there on a mission trip last August. Beautiful place. The mountains to the north (I can't remember the names) were awesome. Really enjoyed the drive up to the top, with many stops along the way. The daily flights of the A-10s got my heart pumping, too. I got lots of pics from the retired aircraft graveyard. I recently saw a Discovery Channel show on how the planes were sorted and recycled. It was filmed right there in Tuscon.

Blair Lowe 01-03-2009 05:42 PM

S&G= Shits and Giggles.

Kevin Parsons 01-03-2009 09:42 PM

One thing I really have to watch when going from powerlifting training to o'lifting is the difference in the back angle on the pl deadlift and the first pull in the o'lifts. Obviously their is a very big difference between the two, but I have noticed I can sometimes slip into a pl deadlift form on a first pull if I have been deadlifting recently. So just from my experience, that is the biggest thing I have to watch for when doing combo training...

Garrett Smith 01-04-2009 06:14 AM

Thanks for taking care of the clarification Blair.

Like I said, I haven't done PL yet, but I have heard that the point Kevin brought up is pretty valid. I do a "frog"ish type of pulling stance for OL which I believe makes it much harder to confuse the two pulls (my DL stance is pretty standard, I'd guess there is a 6" height difference in my hips between the two stances).

I don't believe there are any rules on high or low bar placement. I personally do sort of a hybrid back squat--lower bar, full depth--so I don't think I'll have much trouble with the PL-ish style squat. No world records or anything, but I'd like to make a decent show.

It sounds like Saturday would be a good place to do your PL workout, considering the CA WOD schedule. Maybe Greg E. will add his thoughts, or even Matt Foreman.

Tucson is a great place. It tends to pull back people who move away, I've seen it happen with a bunch of people. I'm assuming you're talking about Mt. Lemmon, that's a fun drive.

Jonathan Dunn 01-04-2009 03:26 PM

Dr G.

Mt Lemmon is it! The drive up there was spectacular. We also went up UA mountain. There was a thunderstorm rolling in while we on UA. Cool shots from that.

I'm going to plug in PL day on Saturday, working mostly on benching, as I do not bench. I think the CA WOD will take care of the SQ and DL very well, and I will continue to practice them in OL style. Hey, maybe someone at the meet will recognize the style and point me in the direction of an OL coach/club/meet.

If you have an more advice, I'm all ears!

Thanks.

Patrick Yeung 01-04-2009 03:41 PM

I didnt even realize that the DL and SQ for oly/pl styles were different till recently. I am in the same boat agian with ya in squat form, a low bar, but below parallel bottom.

I am new to lifting, so maybe my gains are those newbie gains, but have you ever tried Smolov's squat program? It invovles low volume, heavy squating for 13 weeks, including an introduction week and rest weeks.

I am on my last 2 weeks of it before my second 1RM test again, but have had great results. Dropped BF, with no increase in weight, with huge gains in squat.

Started at 245 as my max, and now im doing 315 for 3 reps.

I like the way the program loads the weights each week and is very systematic. I am gonna try using the numbers for DL and Power cleans later.

And what lifts are involved in competition? Bench, DL, SQ?


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