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-   -   Help! Knee and Back Issues (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4193)

Matthieu Hertilus 04-16-2009 05:34 AM

Help! Knee and Back Issues
 
This is for someone I know: what are some ways to still work out with knee issues. The issue is mainly weak knees as they tend to get sore after long walks, hae pain in any type of lunging motion, and generally have poor stability when bent too much. The person also works at a job where he's either constantly standing or constantly sitting down thus making things worse. What are your recommendations?

The second issue is a bad back. After seeing a chiropractor, it was discovered there were bone spurs in the lower back and any type of spine loading movement kills. Even movements that require some core stabalization (i.e. bent over rows) can not be done for very long if it all.

These two problems basically cut out deadlifts, squats, swings, and lunges from his routine. What is a person to do when the desire is there but the body if fighting against them, especially when they need to lose weight?

Thank you in advice for any comments, suggestions, and advice. Again, I'm not referring to myself, but these are common problems I see especially in middle aged adults and this would be a great way to expand my knowledge on the subject

Steven Low 04-16-2009 10:47 AM

Quote:

This is for someone I know: what are some ways to still work out with knee issues. The issue is mainly weak knees as they tend to get sore after long walks, hae pain in any type of lunging motion, and generally have poor stability when bent too much. The person also works at a job where he's either constantly standing or constantly sitting down thus making things worse. What are your recommendations?
Is this because of arthritis?

Generally, when there's knee pain with desk job people it's because their muscles are too weak (hence the joints take all of the stress) and/or the quads are too strong relative to the hamstrings which is another case for knee pain.

Quote:

The second issue is a bad back. After seeing a chiropractor, it was discovered there were bone spurs in the lower back and any type of spine loading movement kills. Even movements that require some core stabalization (i.e. bent over rows) can not be done for very long if it all.
Well, that's unfortunate but can be worked around with some creative bodyweight exercises... back/hip extensions for one.


Quote:

These two problems basically cut out deadlifts, squats, swings, and lunges from his routine. What is a person to do when the desire is there but the body if fighting against them, especially when they need to lose weight?
This is of course the major problem. Loose the weight.. bone spurs will hurt less, knee will hurt less, pretty much a lot of things get "solved" coming out of obesity.

Nutrition is the answer. I'd say some heavy lifting but he can't do that so go with some light activity or something during the day. Everyday.

Enrique Billington 04-17-2009 02:22 AM



This should work for squats. Doesn't load the spine.

http://www.flexcart.com/members/elit...&m=PD&pid=1595 (that is way overpriced, there are much, much cheaper models available, just the quickest one I could find through google).

As Steven said, hip extensions and glute ham raises should work, I assume.

Garrett Smith 04-17-2009 05:41 AM

This person needs to lose weight. Knee pain (OA-type) is nearly a guarantee in those who are obese.
Quote:

Overall, 44.7 percent of patients developed symptomatic knee osteoarthritis with no significant differences based on sex, race and education, the investigators found. History of a knee injury increased lifetime risk to 56.8 percent, and lifetime risk also increased with body mass index where two in three obese patients developed symptomatic knee osteoarthritis, the report indicates.
The less emphasis that can put on exercise, the more emphasis has to be put on what is and isn't going into the mouth.

Multiple areas of arthritic symptoms (including calcinosis, er, bone spurs) means that this person would likely benefit from avoiding nightshades.

Getting their vitamin D & K and magnesium status better would likely help as well.

Matthieu Hertilus 04-17-2009 09:02 AM

Wow, very informative. Thank you guys so much, I'm learning a lot. Keep the gems coming

Dave Van Skike 04-17-2009 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enrique Billington (Post 55457)


This should work for squats. Doesn't load the spine.

http://www.flexcart.com/members/elit...&m=PD&pid=1595 (that is way overpriced, there are much, much cheaper models available, just the quickest one I could find through google).

As Steven said, hip extensions and glute ham raises should work, I assume.

this is also a great adjunct way to teach the squat without any of the panic some people get having a bar on the back. maybe not the best tools but definetley a good one. a large contractor hip belt and some webbing loops can approximate this rig for about 35 bucks.

Matthieu Hertilus 04-17-2009 11:14 AM

If a belt like that is unavailable, would sumo deadlifts w/ a heavy kettlbell suffice?

Dave Van Skike 04-17-2009 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthieu Hertilus (Post 55484)
If a belt like that is unavailable, would sumo deadlifts w/ a heavy kettlbell suffice?

I guess it depnds on intent. if the goals is moderate amounts of strength based rehab then, sure. But sumo DL even light will still load the spine. hip belts are just a nice way to work the legs a little without too much stress. i'm guessing pain free movement is the most important thing, anything that fits that bill is a good start...even **gasp**...machine based work although bands are probably the most versatile option.

is this person really fat? a diet and water based excercise program is probabaly ground zero. then strengthening , I'd start from the hip and move outward, stabilizing the hip, mobilty first and then back work, then mild non-retarded yoga and other holds for time will pay off.

later, BW box squats will learn him how to use the p-chain but could aggrevate the hip pain.

much later, very light kb swings have helped a lot of backs but extreme caution is warranted.

TKE's will almost always help help with knee stuff.

if the person is gung-ho but limited turn him on to grip work...there is an undiscovered ocean of strength to be pursued there.

Matthieu Hertilus 04-17-2009 01:23 PM

I shuttered at the thought of machine based work as well, lol.

I would describe the person as noticeably fat but not considerably. I feel as though the goal is rehab type work since it would be difficult to induce any serious type of training effect an iffy shoulder, weak knees, and instability in the lower back.

I believe more back work (i.e. bodyweight rows, facepulls, Cuban presses, or standing muscle snatches) might take care of his shoulder issues.
I also thought more core stablization work such as the ones shown here: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...e_training&cr= might alleviate some of his back issues.

Thoughts?

Steven Low 04-17-2009 01:30 PM

If it's posture related, sure.


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