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-   -   Strongman (special) core training? (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4326)

Torsten Hauptmann 05-24-2009 01:59 AM

Strongman (special) core training?
 
how do strongman train core strength esp. the anterior wall? As such things as stonework need a strong back but also a very very strong anterior wall. is there any special training besids doing the exercises which come up in competition?

George Mounce 05-24-2009 07:28 AM

Squat, deadlift, pick up heavy object put over head and hold it there. Strongman from every competition I have seen is all about the core stabilizing.

Dave Van Skike 05-24-2009 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torsten Hauptmann (Post 57760)
how do strongman train core strength esp. the anterior wall? As such things as stonework need a strong back but also a very very strong anterior wall. is there any special training besids doing the exercises which come up in competition?


i've never heard of anything special but don't have weak areas, i'm just weak. mostly the guys i train with just focus on the events, which when heavy are training enough for the torso.
  • farmers walk, sort of taxing but body weight plus in each hand is an extra special level of fun.
  • front squats, low rep and high rep on occasion.
  • also a lot of bottom position work in box squats, pin squats, zerchers etc without a belt helps,
  • a bunch of top end work (rack work, high box) with a belt or PL suits seems to help even more. heavy overhead supports stuff like that.

Torsten Hauptmann 05-24-2009 10:20 AM

do i understand it right that strongman do not focus that much on strong abs as in gymnastics and do therefore no/less isolation work like weighted sit ups etc? i ask because i personal did not experience an significant increase of my abstrength from dl, sq. overhead work did provide better results but isolation work like weigthed situps etc. worked best and translated back to overhead work quite well. therefore i was asking...

Dave Van Skike 05-24-2009 12:08 PM

well, i don't know anything about gymnastics but I've not found isolation work do much for my barbell lifts or odd objects with the possible exception of the ab wheel.

I think it's the classic progression. when you're weak, everything makes you stronger, the further you progress, the more specialized everything becomes. In SM, really there are so many events to train that hit your core, hips and shoulders that the last thing you want or need is ab work per se. I think I have wasted too much energy on working specific parts of a movement or body in hopes it will get stronger when what I really need to do is work on technique, when your technique is flawless, you really only need a very few supplemental things in addition to the movement to get stronger.

Torsten Hauptmann 05-25-2009 09:19 PM

Quote:

In SM, really there are so many events to train that hit your core, hips and shoulders that the last thing you want or need is ab work per se
i see like in weightlifting with the lower back which is hit in every lift.

could you do me a favor and tell me how a "normal" strongman routine or workout looks like as only the stonework and overheadwork with a thick bar or log comes in my mind which taxes the abs. are there other events doing the same?

Dave Van Skike 05-26-2009 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torsten Hauptmann (Post 57846)
i see like in weightlifting with the lower back which is hit in every lift.

could you do me a favor and tell me how a "normal" strongman routine or workout looks like as only the stonework and overheadwork with a thick bar or log comes in my mind which taxes the abs. are there other events doing the same?

Mine routine seems normal to me:

Monday. Heavy Press
  • long warm up with front squats, maybe f squat with chains.
  • work up to a strict heavy single double or triple in log or axle
  • then 10 minutes of density work with the top weight for a push press. ten triples on the minute.
  • then light farmers or sandbag carry. maybe weighted chins or DB rows if feeling beat up.

Wed. heavy squat
  • work up to a target number in the back squat followed by
  • a higher rep pull, (RDL's Axle DL, pulls from a box, Farmer DL.)
  • if feeling good, zerchers from the floor or if not so fresh, glute ham raise with band tension.

optional thursday: light presses.
  • deloaded bench press for several sets up to a top weight, then
  • high reps, 3 sets of 15.
  • rows light or chest supported
  • tricep stuff. stretch...

Saturday: heavy pull or events
usually 3 events or do a DL variant and then medley. this week was
  • axle cleans,
  • heavy farmers
  • tire flip.
  • last week was work up to heavy double in DL then medley with
  • heavy farmers
  • keg load carry and load onto sled
  • sled push


In my mind, until one is quite advanced, every day is very taxing on the abs, core or whatever you want to call it. I do throw ab rollers in back to back sets with reverse hyper this is more of an active recovery thing.

a more advanced guy might use a more sophisticated split. this is an article by a LW competitor in the states who is very good. He's got one per week where abs are paired with active recovery.http://www.atlargenutrition.com/effe...an_routine.php

Jacob Rowell 05-26-2009 08:40 AM

I've got a bit of a weak core/abs, and I frequently DL/Squat/Press heavy, and train various events.

Doing the events, (Specifically stones, kegs, and logs), hasn't really improved my core strength appreciably, maybe because I don't train them that often. But, I could certainly see how they could be a good training stimulus - try shouldering a heavy ass stone, and as you slowly (in my case) roll it up your body, you'll know whether or not you've got weak abs.

I have found that isometric core work has helped me, given that in lots of strongman events, you're just hoping to God that your spine will hold it's ground, and not snap in half. Some of the tougher plank variations have been good.


Oh, and the evil wheel is a keeper, though I don't use it enough myself.

Torsten Hauptmann 05-29-2009 04:25 AM

Quote:

I've not found isolation work do much for my barbell lifts or odd objects with the possible exception of the ab wheel
i should have been more precis. with isolation work i meant more advanced training of "abs" with such things as ab wheel and body levers.
the problem with my core/abs was that it was hard for me to find exercises which had the right intensity: either i could do lots of reps or i could not even get a negativ rep done! so weighted sit ups worked well because i could simpy add weight/resistance with bands.

Quote:

the evil wheel is a keeper
for sure!!




thank you both for your rich input! i do see things now much clearer.

your posts made me decide to give stonework along with farmers and sandbagcarry a try once a week

but as absolut strongman beginner i wonder if there are some sources available about the technique to load a stone?
where do you drop the stone on? i have rubber mats i build a plattform from for weightlifting but dropping a heavy stone on a small mat should not make that much difference from dropping it directly to the floor.
and with what weight should i start? i have a 190kg DL for reps (3 or 5) and clean 100kg standing (not a power clean)

do you think that i could do farmers and sadbagcarry on one day or should i do one week farmers + stones next week sadbagcarry + stones? i have no clue how log i need to lern the technique for the stones to get heavy and if farmers and sandbagcarry are pretty much the same besids more different/no emphasis on grip (bearhugging vs. shouldering the sandbag) therefore i am asking

Jacob Rowell 05-29-2009 08:59 AM

Horse stall mats seem to work well, a few of them that is.

You have stones already? You can also get a couple of tires with an outside diameter a little larger than the stone, and drop the stone on those.

Your deadlift isn't going to be the limiting factor when you begin attempting to lift stones, your technique on the pick will. The pick technique is something I have difficulty explaining. Stand over the stone, with your toes bisecting it. Clench your fists, and dig your forearms into the sides of the stone, with a slight slight bend. Your hips will shoot up, unlike a deadlift.

In terms of loading to a platform, You'll probably start with a two part pick/lap and load. Once you have lapped the stone, lay your arms over the top, pull it into your chest as high as possible, then push your hips through, roll it up your body, and load. With lighter stones, and as you get better, you can do a one motion pick and load.



For doing other events, just keep an eye on your recovery. If you need to, cycle between heavy and light SM training days, or you could even do some events light, some heavy on the same day to manage training load.


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