Catalyst Athletics Forums

Catalyst Athletics Forums (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/index.php)
-   Olympic Weightlifting (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=14)
-   -   Pulls with the most transference? (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4741)

Garrett Smith 10-13-2009 09:44 PM

Pulls with the most transference?
 
If one had to choose between snatch pulls and clean pulls, which one is the most useful (has the most carryover/transference)?

I'm mainly referring to carryover/transference in OL itself.

My guess would be clean pulls, as they simply use more weight.

Thoughts?

Omar Omar 10-14-2009 04:31 AM

I will give you only my opinion on this.

For Oly-lifting both of them are quiet diffrent. Its like me asking "should I deadlift, or backsquat in order to get better at both", niether does the deadlift do much to my squat or vise-versa...

Similarly, the snatch neads more speed, clean has more wieght therefors its more of strentgh.

The snatch is more about shoulder flexibility and stability, it uses the hips more. Aghh, the clean is more about some other stuff....

I dont really think one of them will get you better at both, not even a little bit. The lifts are just so diffrent.

According to coach Burgener the snatch requires more power out-put, the most expolsive power, and is a better representation of an athletes ability.

I personally also think that (if anything) the snatch will get you better at the clean, if I ever had to choose only one, Ill go for snatches =))))

(All this is m personal opinion, Im not certified or anything like that so its up to you)

Robbie Bremner 10-14-2009 05:35 AM

Both
 
If we are talking in transference to oly lifts then both are important. I don't waste my time doing deadlifts, I just do pulls. In terms, of replicating the bar path of a snatch or clean, it is challenging.

Snatch Pull - due to this being generally a lighter weight than clean pull, this has a tendency to be used more from experience. I personally struggle with retraction and posture with this lift as its normally at 100%+.
Clean Pull - Due to it being a considerable weight (100%+ of clean), this weight tests my first pull and postural control. Anything over 3 reps normally turns into a clean deadlift.

If we are talking transfer into athletic performance, It really depends on the athlete and their ability. Normally less experienced athletes would use the blocks, as the 1st Pull/start position adds problems later in the lift and they get the appropiate adaptations from the 2nd Pull/Drive phase.

In my current program, I am using more snatch pulls than clean pulls as I have more issues with my snatch than CJ. I guess what I'm trying to say that it all comes down to speification. The snatch is always taught first by most coaches, so that may be a hint to which has more transference to oly lifting in general.

Brian DeGennaro 10-14-2009 06:58 AM

What are you trying to improve, Garret?

Garrett Smith 10-14-2009 08:43 AM

I'd like to improve my OLs, but there isn't enough room in my program to be totally OL-specific.

I'd say I'm furthest away from my C&J goal, but I am most limited on that by my jerks at this time.

Anyway, I love pulls, but to avoid burning out, I wanted to know which one might give max benefit if I could only do one.

Martin Bonn 10-14-2009 09:09 AM

Hey Garrett,

if there was only one then it would have to be snatch pulls: requires more torso stabilisation due to the back angle, and you can still work the power, which shoud carry over to the clean nicely.
having said that, the bar position at the end of the 1st pull is a little different, so drilling that just with the snatch pulls might not give you as much of an effect as the clean pulls.

if you only have room for one, do snatch pulls.
OR: do 2-3 lighter sets of snatch pulls and then 2-3 heavier sets of clean pulls, not ideal, but maybe a reasonlable alternative?

Omar Omar 10-14-2009 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Bonn (Post 63953)
OR: do 2-3 lighter sets of snatch pulls and then 2-3 heavier sets of clean pulls, not ideal, but maybe a reasonlable alternative?

I like the alternative. kinda smart hehe..

Check your inbox...

Brian DeGennaro 10-14-2009 05:18 PM

Personally, the way I would perform pulls would be quite different than anyone else. If I ever do pulls, I use no straps and I do singles (or clusters) and I let it go after the 2nd pull. Let me explain why I do this.

First off, the point of Weightlifting is to improve your snatch and CJ, and these are explosive movements and they are only done for max weight not repetitions. Doing singles on pulls allows you to focus on maintaining your explosiveness and positioning while reducing fatigue. Secondly, etting go of the bar helps to ensure you don't hang out at the top of the pull or have to worry about slowing the bar down back to the hang or floor.

I treat pulls like I would a heavy snatch or clean where my grip came off: a single repetiton with a heavy weight and build volume off of that. I know this is different from what others do with pulls but IMO every accessory movement should have as much transfer as possible to the lifts.

Omar Omar 10-14-2009 08:22 PM

A question for all those who can help.

I dont meant to hijack this thread but the opportunity to ask presents it self after Brian's question...

Are CrossFit WODS Randy and Grace simply met-cons that are useless when it comes to devoloping power.

For those of you who dont know them

Grace
30 C@J of 135 pounds for time (takes elite athletes 2-4 minutes for 30 reps)

Randy
75 reps of 75 pounds snatch (takes 4 minutes too)

Are the simple endurance Wods that have no contribution whatsoever to power, or strentgh...

Michael McKenna 10-15-2009 06:34 AM

In the Russian method, Snatch Pulls are "extra" lifts. So I'd drop them. But, really, one week do clean pulls and one week do Snatch pulls. Once/ month finish the snatch pull with your arms; never finish with your arms in the clean pull (this adviceafter working with Victor Gallego; finishging the snatch pull once in a while helps your finish in the snatch, but just once in a while is necessary).

Almost all my pulls are singles/ doubles; snatch pulls under 80% sometimes go 3-5, depending on the plan for the month. Occasionally, clean pulls from high blocks will go up to a set of 5.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:20 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.