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-   -   Training idea for Lyle's Rapid Fat Loss (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5268)

Patrick Poblocki 03-22-2010 05:10 AM

Training idea for Lyle's Rapid Fat Loss
Hi all,

Background: 28 years old, m, 18% bf, goal: sub 10% bf

Quick question: I'm doing a phase of Lyle's Rapid Fat Loss program. It looks like this (170 grams of lean protein broken into three meals from fish, chicken breast and lean, grass-fed, ground beef; unlimited green stuff (for me--savoy cabbage, iceberg lettuce, spinach, and broccoli; 2 fish caps after each meal; supps include magnesium, potassium, calcium, vitamin D, and a multi).

So, that said, I'm trying to figure out my programming. I'm coming from a crossfit background with a lot of white water kayaking. My diet before was 90% paleo, 130 grams of protein, 50% of calories coming from fat, the remainder carbs.

My assumption is that with such a significant drop in carbohydrate and calorie consumption, a lot of metcon will be counter productive. Instead, I'm thinking about doing a Starting Strength approach with one sprint day mixed in for 4 total days of exercising per week. Kayaking will depend on the rainfall (I live in CT).

I thought this was a good approach to preserve lean body mass will losing weight. What do you think?

Thanks for any input!


Steven Low 03-22-2010 06:20 AM

Well, you're gonna have to cut some cals to lose weight in general...

The best way to keep the mass without overtaxing yourself given likely depletion of glycogen is heavy lifting.

Metabolic work and sprinting and such things will probably deplete your glycogen much faster and leave you feeling crappy.

Moran Bentzur 03-22-2010 07:27 AM

You might try to do a 5/3/1 two day / week variation (Deadlift+Press, SQuat+Bench). Don't go crazy with the extra reps on the last set. You are trying to maintain strength not build strength.
I would be against the metcon and sprinting. If you want to add more work, do some LSD at a very comfortable pace to increase your energy deficit.

Patrick Poblocki 03-22-2010 07:27 AM

Thanks Steven,

That's what I was thinking too. I was iffy about the sprints, but love them as part of my routine. I guess I'll scrap them for the next few weeks. I'm probably only going to do this for a month with 2 weeks on, 1 week off, then 1 week on.

It's recommended that you do a full break every two weeks. During that time would it be okay do bring back some sprints and other metcons?

During the diet, it'll look like SS would be three times per week of basic lifts: squat, deads, shoulder press, pull ups, and cleans.

If I keep each to under 45 minutes and focus on heavy loads with long breaks, would that make most sense?



Donald Lee 03-22-2010 08:07 AM


RFL is a starvation diet. If you're not on an EC stack, you should be lacking energy. The only reason you workout on the RFL diet is to maintain muscle mass. If you are thinking about doing SS, I would recommend you workout 2-3 days/week and possibly cut the volume to 2 sets of 5 reps. And, don't go for crazy linear progression. Keep in mind that the energy for lifting heavy weights comes primarily from glycogen and not fat.

Derek Weaver 03-22-2010 10:21 AM

A) What is your bodyweight, none of this thread makes sense without knowing what your bodyweight is at that bodyfat percentage.
B) Why not just go to his forum and use the template he's got on there for the RFL protocol.
C) 170 grams of protein sounds really low for that particular diet. Hell, when I gave UD2.0 a run I was taking in ~1.25 grams of protein/lb, approx 210 grams/day.
D) Did you actually read the book? He's got a lot of recommendations for supplementation. Light salt, calcium etc.

Patrick Poblocki 03-22-2010 10:51 AM

Thanks Donald, I'll keep that in mind and resist the urge to add volume. What's an EC stack?

A) my current bodyweight (as of last night is 170) I'm 5' 7". I've calculated my bf with calipers to be 18% (30 lbs of fat and 140 lbs lbm). So, it appears I'm taking in 1.2 grams protein per lb of lean body mass.

B) I've read/posted here in the past and have always been impressed by and grateful for the information I've received. I didn't know about Lyle's forum. I guess I figured I'd go where I knew I could find quality information.

C) It seems low to me too...but when figured by lean body mass instead of total weight, it doesn't seem "too" low. I hope. (I've never done a diet like this.)

D) Yup. I read the book and I'm taking the suggested supplementation (magnesium, potassium, calcium, vitamin D, and a multi). I don't want to do any extra caffeine/ephedrine though.

Derek Weaver 03-22-2010 11:30 AM

I'm not Donald, but caffeine/ephedrine is the EC stack. It is helpful and a good idea on a short term, aggressive, "crash" diet like RFL. I actually think it's a mistake to do the diet without it. Slowly increase the dose according to tolerance and you'd be fine.

Even by RFL standards, your daily deficit of approx. 1870 kcal seems a little high. Of course you'll get another couple hundred cals from the veggies and fish oil + tag along carbs and fats, so I guess it's not so bad. I would definitely get over to Lyle's Support Forum and skim around, read the article on his site "Is RFL Right For You?" Or whatever it's called.

This forum isn't for Lyle's products, though many of us have experience with them. To make sure you do it right, get your questions answered there. But be sure to do as much research through his articles and forum as you can before starting a thread. He can be a bit caustic at times.

I completely forgot that this thread is intended to be for suggestions while on diet. That's something we can do. Sorry.

I'd go with something like Donald noted. Either SS format with little to no progression (not gonna happen in such a severe deficit), and reduced volume by ~1/3 or..... cables and machines for similar volume. I usually hate machines, but do like cables. However, on something like RFL, you don't want to be in a deep deficit and feel like you're going to collapse with a heavy bar on your back.

Either way you go, it is necessary to stay as heavy as possible. The number 1 rule in maintaining LBM when on a diet is intensity, as in weight on the bar.

Mike ODonnell 03-22-2010 11:57 AM

The RFL is a modified Body Opus I believe. Do your strength work after any carb reloads earlier in the week, as later in the week you won't have the energy to do much of anything but walk on the treadmill for 45 min. Metcons would be disastrous. Caffeine and B12 will be your best friends.

It can work....but it is brutal. You can still lose weight without needing to go that extreme though.

Donald Lee 03-22-2010 12:47 PM

If you're really at 18% bodyfat, I'd say you should probably do the diet for about 2 weeks and then move on to a more moderate diet after the 2 weeks at maintenance. Like Derek said, I'd HIGHLY recommend taking Ephedrine/Caffeine during the RFL diet. Not only does it help with the crashing metabolism, it'll help with your hunger. It'll also give you some energy, although it may not be noticeable after a while. Hopefully, you don't have any health issues that would make Ephedrine potentially unsafe. And, you should not do any cardio during the diet. The diet itself will provide enough of a calorie deficit.

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