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-   -   Zone and gymnastics (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5550)

Troy Kerr 06-30-2010 10:15 AM

Zone and gymnastics
 
I am doing a guesstimation that I am somewhere around 8 percent body fat. Last time I had it measured it was 11.4 and since then I have gained a significant amount of muscle and lost a good amount of fat. I would really love to just knock the rest out as my goal has always been 5% bodyfat. I am just concerned if following a base zone would be
detrimental to my gymnastic training ( I am following a steady state cycle).
I typically follow an 80/20 paleo diet. I currently stand at 5"9, 185lbs, at less than 10% bodyfat. Is it possible to lose the fat without sacrificing my routine?

Derek Weaver 06-30-2010 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troy Kerr (Post 77809)
I am doing a guesstimation that I am somewhere around 8 percent body fat. Last time I had it measured it was 11.4 and since then I have gained a significant amount of muscle and lost a good amount of fat. I would really love to just knock the rest out as my goal has always been 5% bodyfat. I am just concerned if following a base zone would be
detrimental to my gymnastic training ( I am following a steady state cycle).
I typically follow an 80/20 paleo diet. I currently stand at 5"9, 185lbs, at less than 10% bodyfat. Is it possible to lose the fat without sacrificing my routine?

I doubt it's likely. Certainly possible, although 5% bf is near bodybuilding contest lean.

Tough to perform in any way, if you get what I mean, at that level of bodyfat.

Donald Lee 06-30-2010 01:11 PM

I just noticed that the Zone Diet category on this forum is gone.

The Zone Diet is too low in protein to get that lean while maintaining muscle mass, unless you're naturally lean. You should be eating anywhere from 1-2 g of protein per lb of LBM.

Getting to 5% bodyfat is extremely difficult for most, and you might not be able to do it on a simple Zone-type diet.

I'm also going to guess that you're underestimating your current bodyfat % and that you don't really know what 5% body fat looks like. 8% bodyfat is RIPPED, if you have some muscle. 5% body fat, as Derek said, is bodybuilder status. Even bodybuilders rarely maintain 5% body fat. Martin Berkhan is the only person I've actually heard of who maintains 5.5% body fat year around and is not an endurance athlete.

If you're going to try to maintain anywhere close to 5% body fat year around, you're going to have to implement frequent refeeds and some other nutritional strategies far more advanced than the Zone Diet.

Troy Kerr 06-30-2010 03:54 PM

OK I appreciate that. As far as my body image goes, my iliac crest is quite visible but there is still some fat at the top of it and towards my low back. My guesstimation came from google images. I have a clear abdominal outlining as well. I am in the process of finding someone to test my body fat again.
My only other idea would be to follow a ketogenic diet based off of paleo selection. Any thoughts on this approach?

Derek Weaver 06-30-2010 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troy Kerr (Post 77823)
OK I appreciate that. As far as my body image goes, my iliac crest is quite visible but there is still some fat at the top of it and towards my low back. My guesstimation came from google images. I have a clear abdominal outlining as well. I am in the process of finding someone to test my body fat again.
My only other idea would be to follow a ketogenic diet based off of paleo selection. Any thoughts on this approach?

My current take on ketogenic diets is that they're utterly stupid for athletes unless you have severe insulin resistance (unlikely if you're already lean) or have epilepsy.

A cyclical ketogenic approach may work well where the deletion of carbs on a low/no carb day would equal a pretty severe deficit. Carbs go high and you're at maintenance or a little below, carbs go medium and you're in a slight deficit etc. Protein and fat kept fairly constant the whole way.

You can definitely get very lean Zoning, but it sucks. If you want to get freaky lean, for whatever reason, just recognize you'll be hungry and pissed off at least some of the time.

Lyle's made mention that the biggest factor in maintaining lean body mass is intensity in the weight room where intensity equals the weight on the bar.

Check out this post by Martin on Stubborn Body Fat

There's also a good one right before that one that I linked to in this forum (and nobody seemed to give a crap about it I guess) regarding Malcolm Gladwell on LC diets.

Like Donald said, refeeds help the issue. They're not necessarily required though. People have gotten very lean (including a lot of Crossfitters) without refeeds in the past. They are nice though.

Steven Low 06-30-2010 05:45 PM

You might regress strength or plateau sooner.... but it shouldn't be a big deal

Donald Lee 06-30-2010 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troy Kerr (Post 77823)
OK I appreciate that. As far as my body image goes, my iliac crest is quite visible but there is still some fat at the top of it and towards my low back. My guesstimation came from google images. I have a clear abdominal outlining as well. I am in the process of finding someone to test my body fat again.
My only other idea would be to follow a ketogenic diet based off of paleo selection. Any thoughts on this approach?

From that description, it sounds like you're at 10-12% bodyfat. And definitely have a look at the article Derek linked.

Troy Kerr 06-30-2010 07:34 PM

I have read his article and the only problems I have are facts I should of mentioned in my first posting.

I am type 1 diabetic on an insulin pump. In this past any type of fat burner ( when I was in hs and experimented with them) jacked up my blood sugar. So I am weary of supplements like that.

I also work in a restaurant while home from school for the summer. So long hours on my feet without eating, and a less than optimal schedule.

Derek Weaver 07-01-2010 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troy Kerr (Post 77829)
I have read his article and the only problems I have are facts I should of mentioned in my first posting.

I am type 1 diabetic on an insulin pump. In this past any type of fat burner ( when I was in hs and experimented with them) jacked up my blood sugar. So I am weary of supplements like that.

I also work in a restaurant while home from school for the summer. So long hours on my feet without eating, and a less than optimal schedule.

Ahhhh, I wasn't even thinking Type 1 diabetic. Gymnastics based strength work etc. is a good choice.

In that case, paleo-ketogenic stuff makes sense.

I would check in on Robb Wolf's page in that case. He's got a ton of stuff for the Type 1 diabetic.

That post of mine should have said something like keto diets are utterly stupid unless you're insulin resistant, epileptic or type 1 diabetic. I kind of acted up on that one.

Definitely Robb's page.

Troy Kerr 07-01-2010 11:37 AM

Its all good man. Yeah I was fortunate enough to meet Robb at one of his nutrition certs 2 years ago. Since then the man has been nothing short of a life saver for me. Based on the zone calculator I'm at 19 blocks. I will roll with that for at least 3 weeks and see how things go.

In regards to that article, it mentions that some sort of activity during the fast will help things out. Now would this be the same as doing 20 minutes of "cardio" after waking up from a 12 hour fast?


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