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-   -   Rippetoe and BF (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=559)

Elliot Royce 02-22-2007 02:44 PM

Rippetoe and BF
 
Mark Rippetoe from a thread on CF: [quote]It has been my experience that the people who make the best progress on CF come from a strength training background. It will be very hard to get your deadlift up to 500 on a straight CrossFit program. It will be quite doable to get a 16 round "Cindy" if you already have a 500 lb. deadlift. Strength is a good base for everything else. GPP is important, if the lack of it is a problem. My point is that if you're a 25-year-old male with a max squat of 150 lbs., max deadlift of 200, and max press of 100 at a bodyweight of 150, then GPP should not be your first concern. Your CF workouts should be designed around, and should defer to, your strength program until such time as your strength and lean body mass are up high enough to make you a more efficient athlete. In my opinion.

It is also my opinion that anyone with 18% bodyfat or lower that is really, really worried about it is more interested in aesthetics than performance. Not that there's anything wrong with that.[/QUOTE]

I'm interested in his last point. Is he implying that the acceptance of the extra weight is benefiicial to muscle growth or that it just doesn't matter? I would imagine that most of us would put on major amounts of muscle going to 18% BF.

Steve Shafley 02-22-2007 03:31 PM

I think it's pretty self explanatory.

The biggest problem with putting on weight ISN'T getting the proper stimulus to lay down new muscle and/or fat, it's getting enough calories.

Robb Wolf 02-22-2007 04:17 PM

It's a tough thing to let go of the "six pack" for a while to put on some legit muscle and the strength to go with it, but man does it pay dividends.

Mike ODonnell 02-22-2007 04:17 PM

18% by the American and Medical standards is considered ideal......(or sub 17% is at least)....and yes I imagine trying to get down from 18% with GPP will reduce strength and have some muscle loss.

I think trying to sell the idea of a 6% BF person who can DL 600lbs, run a 5 min mile, have a 2 min Fran, huge Biceps and be the best at everything is an unrealistic view that most people coming into CF imagine they can get. I think that's his point too.

That reminds me of when it all hit home a long time ago watching one of those strongest men competition. Of course lots of backwoods lumberjack types with I imagine over 18% BF but some serious muscle too...and then the US guy is a oil down tan bodybuilder who pretty much looked like he just came from a show....very impressive and looked like he should of whooped everyone by his sheer muscle definition and size.......he came in dead last....every event...that is the ones he could finish.

Robb Wolf 02-23-2007 06:36 AM

Just to muddy the waters, and steal Shaf's contrarian Hat, I remember some pretty intensive studies looking at what metrics could be tracked that might explain differences between elite and mid level Oliftrs...and I think wrestlers. The only real difference was bodyfat%. If you have a 200lb athlete and one is 6% and the other is 10% you have a lot more engine running around on the 6% athlete. I'm sure y'all are savvy to this fact but it (IMO) presents some programming priorities. 1-add muscle/get stronger 2-optimize body comp.

Elliot-
I know you have been eating like crazy to put on muscle and I think mentioned that if you missed any meals you backslide pretty quickly. Same boat here. For shites and grinns I tried the base Zone for a week and leaned out to what I think is about 6%~160-165lbs. Bodyweight movements were awesome (rope-climb, HSPU...until the separated shoulder!) and absolute strength is pretty good on the things I can do.

Not sure what my point is other than occasionally we need to shift gears to reach certain goals.

Allen Yeh 02-23-2007 07:09 AM

I just wanted to add that you people that backslide quickly can kiss my butt! haha Sorry just the bitter rantings of a person that packs on pounds too easily.

Ron Nelson 02-23-2007 08:07 AM

I think MR hits the nail on the head once again, and might pay dearly for it (of course it could be an ancient post and nothing happened, thus making me look like a dolt). I went in to CF because I liked the "hardcore" approach to fitness. I read the interview with Greg in Girevek Mag and was intrigued by the promise of bringing up the DL and decreasing my mile time from 10 minutes.

What I found was I became pretty decent at BW exercises like the pull up and push up; decreased my mile time to around 8:00; took my deadlift from 265# to 225#; my squat from about 275# to 225#. On the other hand, I totally ruled at 55lb swings. I could do 30 non-stop and easily did the 21 swings for Helen. I also developed elbow tendonosis, achilles tendonosis, general pain and fatigue.

Bottom line: I came in without the requisite strength background. I was like the guy MR describes except heavier. Had I focused on upping my squat and DL progressively, I might be closer to where I wanted to be. I care about my BF%, but I think that if I worked out the strength problem, the BF would have taken care of itself with the GPP. I think I just stated the obvious.

BTW, my best Cindy was 14 rounds.

Neal Winkler 02-23-2007 08:29 AM

Mariusz Pudzianowski has won the World's Strongest Man three times and he is ripped.

Cassidy Drake 02-23-2007 10:08 AM

Marius also has a lot of "help":D


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