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-   -   whey protein? (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5612)

Daniel Gam 07-31-2010 07:47 PM

whey protein?
 
does supplementing with whey protein help with mass gain if i'm already eating 1g of protein / lb of BW? i'm looking for other alternatives to help gain weight without eating uncomfortably large quantities of solid food.

Donald Lee 07-31-2010 09:45 PM

Nope.

If you do want to supplement though, a casein/whey mix is better. You can get milk isolate from trueprotein.com.

And, most people only really need to eat about 20% more than normal to gain mass.

Darryl Shaw 08-02-2010 05:29 AM

The protein requirements of strength athletes in regular training are 1-1.4g/kg/d which is only slightly greater than that of the general population and is easily met by almost any diet that provides adequate calories. Protein in excess of this amount is oxidized and used as fuel so in most cases protein supplements are just an expensive source of calories.

If you're having trouble eating enough to gain weight then peanut butter, honey and banana smoothies (or similar) would be a cheaper and healthier alternative to supplements.

Derek Weaver 08-02-2010 03:10 PM

Darryl,
Where do you get your values from? I've seen everything from a similar range that you suggest, being closer to .6-1 gram per pound, all the way up to .8 as a minimum up to 1.5 grams/lb (closing in on 3.5 g/kg/day).

The two better sources I've seen are Lyle and Martin. Lyle researched an entire book on the subject of protein intake, and Martin is pretty meticulous with his research and writing on his site, and I'd assume on the book that's coming out someday.

To address the OP though, excess protein intake, regardless of health, tends to show diminishing returns. Through anecdotal evidence only, it seems that most do well around 1 gram/lb, occasionally a touch more.

You will only put on mass/weight through eating more and lifting progressively heavier weights.

Donald Lee 08-02-2010 03:47 PM

From what I have gathered here and there, as I don't have a formal education in this stuff yet, the technology for determining totally accurate minimal protein requirements or recommended optimal intake is not there yet. Based on the evidence, some people throw out numbers like Darryl's and some people throw out numbers like Lyle's. There isn't much wrong with erring on the side of eating a bit too much protein (if at least 1 g/lb LBM/day is really too much), unless it's costing you a ton of money.

If you really feel like it, you could just test it out on yourself.

Derek Weaver 08-02-2010 05:49 PM

Agreed. Brad Pilon notes that it's possible to build muscle without large amounts of protein, but still prefers diets a bit higher in protein than the recommended daily amounts we get here in the U.S. from the government.

From an enjoyment factor, as well as satiety, I prefer higher protein intakes. Higher carbs second, enough fat last.

Darryl Shaw 08-03-2010 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Weaver (Post 78907)
Darryl,
Where do you get your values from? I've seen everything from a similar range that you suggest, being closer to .6-1 gram per pound, all the way up to .8 as a minimum up to 1.5 grams/lb (closing in on 3.5 g/kg/day).

The two better sources I've seen are Lyle and Martin. Lyle researched an entire book on the subject of protein intake, and Martin is pretty meticulous with his research and writing on his site, and I'd assume on the book that's coming out someday.

To address the OP though, excess protein intake, regardless of health, tends to show diminishing returns. Through anecdotal evidence only, it seems that most do well around 1 gram/lb, occasionally a touch more.

You will only put on mass/weight through eating more and lifting progressively heavier weights.

Most of the popular sports nutrition books such as Anita Bean's and Nancy Clark's recommend a protein intake of 1.2-1.8g/kg of LBM/d which covers the needs of pretty much every athlete. The heavyweight texts like Exercise Physiology: Human Bioenergetics and it's Application by Brooks, Fahey and Baldwin, Exercise Physiology: Energy Nutrition and Human Performance by McArdle, Katch and Katch and Clinical Sports Nutrition by Louise Burke give the same basic recommendation but break things down into more detail.

The two studies they all cite on this are Tarnopolsky et al (1988) and Tarnopolsky et al(1992) which show that nitrogen balance is maintained in strength/power athletes with protein intakes of 1-1.4g/kg/d and that endurance athletes have the greatest protein requirements.

In practice you don't need to be too concerned with your protein intake though because any reasonably varied diet will contain all the protein you need without the use of supplements providing your calorie intake is adequate. I underlined that last part because it's important to remember that calories are the most critical ingredient in any weight gain program because a negative energy balance will always result in a negative nitrogen balance regardless of how much protein you eat.

Gant Grimes 08-12-2010 02:02 PM

The correct answer is it depends (on you). The typical baseline is 1g/lb/bw. Don't just titrate up to this, though. A lot of people--myself included--need a BIG increase in protein to move the needle up. Once you're on the move, then you adjust downward.

I'm a lot less concerned with what some skinny researcher who synthesizes studies says than what has worked for me. Be your own experiment. Aim for 1.5g/lb/bw and titrate downward.

The whey-casein thing is also overstated IMO. If you're not getting your protein, shoot some whey and move on.

Dave Van Skike 08-12-2010 03:16 PM

you know what i just had?...whey protein and oj. YUM.


I think my neck just went up a size.

Allen Yeh 08-13-2010 04:38 AM

hope it's vanilla......the thought of chocolate and OJ turns my stomach....


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