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-   -   V-Diet (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=582)

Mike ODonnell 02-26-2007 07:54 PM

V-Diet
 
Ok...so now according to Poliquin (email newsletter) he is now pushing the V-Diet.....and I know DJ did it.....so I wanted to get any other feedback on it from any others who might have attempted it. More about performance, fat loss, muscle maintenance, etc....and also about issues...like who is this not safe for? What are the possible effects long term? etc..etc..

Let the games begin.

Steve Shafley 02-26-2007 08:06 PM

Here's my take on it.

The only, and let me repeat, the only advantage an all liquid protein sparing modified fast has over a whole food protein sparing modified fast is the complete and utter control you have over caloric intake.

Dave Van Skike 02-26-2007 08:42 PM

First.

I think Poliquin is an 80/20 genius. 80% of his stuff is dead on, 20% bat%$*t crazy. DB snatches "dangerous"? Come on. That said. I did the v-diet. No rocket science there, it is about the most bone simple protein sparing modified fast I can imagine. It's no healthy, it's not long term. It's a brutal slap in the face to get rolling.


Details


Starting stats were 30+% BF, 38 plus inch waist, a good deal of belly fat, I was inspired by DJ's results so I sucked it up and shilled out for the stuff.

Started on Oct. 30th. 2006 Followed the v-diet regime as Rx'd for two and a half weeks,

Basically 5-6 shakes per day, mostly the biotest brand, (have to say I still like biotest the best because it mixes easily., I thin low carb proetiewn shakes taste like crap.)

Started with the thermogenics (hot rox) but they gave me heartburn.

Lot's of fish oil. Coffee, water green tea. Tons of NEPA. I also switched out to a 5x5x5 lifting program. Squats, Deads, Clean, Press and Dumbell Snatches.



I went hard for two weeks, then... my dad got cancer, my house remodel stalled and my job went crazy...STRESSmonkey syndrome. The diet was starting to seem like a diversion so I backed off a little and added in one solid meal per day. basically a can of tuna over lettuce.


Results


This saved the day. I stuck with that protocol for 6 weeks. Lost about 30 pounds. Not much muscle loss if any to be honest. Now I'm down to about 20%BF. Size 34 pants. I have cheat days every weekend but kept it pretty under control (most of the time).

I lost mostly belly fat, lost cravings for a lot of crap foods and quit drinking beer (mostly) I still drink Guinness and red wine about twice a week.

Strength

Strength levels steadily rose throughout diet. Although not quickly, I hit PRs in Deadlift, DB Snatch and Front squat. The lifts I paid no attention to went up the most. The ones I hammered, like cleans and presses stayed flat. I did ZERO metcon. I had work capacity of a Chevy 235, fine just off idle, redline's at about 3200. I did do lots of NEPA, mostly biking to and from work...slow and low that is the tempo.


Transition


I was very intentional about transitioning off. I was very slow to add carbs, very slow to add kcal.s

I rode out the holiday season on a modified low carb-ish diet, at about maintenance calories and lost another 5 to 6 more pounds into January. I then switched to a strength based program and went to all solid food and a slight kcal surplus. All my lifts immediately went up and my neck, back and quads grew very quickly.

Upshot:

Since I did it, my wife and another friend have tried it. My wife is down 15 pounds in 4 weeks. My friend can't seem to hack the shakes but is making slow progress on a real food version of the same protein-ish fast

I sheepishly recommend it because it is so simple and it worked great for me. I'd recommend it to anyone who is pissed off enough to try a radical change. My wife waited to do it until our youngest quit breastfeeding.

For me it lived up to the hype. I currently on an IF protocol (calorie restricted) to get down to 15-18% BF where I'll be happy to stay. If IF doesn't deliver for me, I'd do a protein fast again in a heartbeat.

Dave Van Skike 02-26-2007 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Shafley (Post 5494)
Here's my take on it.

The only, and let me repeat, the only advantage an all liquid protein sparing modified fast has over a whole food protein sparing modified fast is the complete and utter control you have over caloric intake.

I agree with Mr. Shafley... that said, control is the real issue. I suspect it's why a lot of diets work, if there is a bright line drawn between on task and off track I think a lot of people do better. that is the only magic.

Also, anything that is so unsustainable as a protein fast needs to be gotten over with quickly. Don't mistake this for "healthy".

Mike ODonnell 02-26-2007 09:04 PM

I wondered if the liquid diet and high fiber had a benefit medically speaking wise over the same version with same protein. Seeing how the liquid is quickly digested, therefore saving more energy towards rebuilding and healing...plus all that flaxseeds probably does a hell of a job scrubbing the gut and cleaning it up...leaves alot to be wondered about it from a disease point of view....would it help someone with an autoimmune disorder that could be lead back to say leaky gut syndrome? (as fasting in general shows benefits towards all diseases).

Also how important is the thermogenic aids? I would guess not vital if you do it for only 30 days.

Steve Shafley 02-27-2007 04:51 AM

Dan John and I talked about this.

And, yes, "control" is the issue. For example 18-20 hour fast a day for me, no problem, because I know if I eat something I fail. Eat NO carbs....easy...

6 Zone meals a day...oooh...now it's getting tricky. While I've gotten good results with the Zone in the past, the whole balancing act is begging for me to mess it up. Undisciplined? Sure, I am. I realize this. The very act of denial makes me more disciplined.

So, we get into the topic that I've thought about a lot lately. That's the philosophical appropriateness of a dietary and exercise regimen to an individual.

For example: I've stated that I absolutely abhor the 5x5 rep scheme. No real reason for it, I just don't like it. Is me doing ladders of 1/2/3 instead of sets of five going to compromise me? No. Plus, since I've bought into it, I'm going to be more likely to comply.

Allen Yeh 02-27-2007 05:38 AM

Like Steve I find that with IF it's a lot easier to manage your meals when you know you have absolute cut off times.

When doing the 6 meal a day thing I found it was easy to get off track if life/work got in the way, sometimes at a installation I'd miss 3-4 meals just because an escort was needed to go anywhere out of the building. Then I'd be ravenous by the time I got to eat anything and eat until sated. I did have long term success with this method but I felt it was easy to break discipline if I couldn't get my meals at the 2-3 hour intervals.

I did a smoothie fast from the book The Detox Diet by Dr. Haas, I did it basically to support my wife when she was doing it. Holy crap talking about gnawing hunger, it was basically get all your calories in by smoothie except for lemon water in the morning plus a fruit to "detox" the body. No supplements/caffiene other than what he outlined in his book, herbal teas, things like greens powder, milkweed thistle...etc. This smoothie thing killed me, even though I got all my cals I was craving in the worst way just to chew something after day 5, I caved after day 10, my wife made it all 2 weeks. The things I didn't like about this diet was just that I just wanted texture in my mouth, at times I would salivate thinking about biting something crispy. Also this was a gnawing hunger like 30 minutes after a shake and my next shake was 2-3 hours away.

With that being said I did think about trying the V-diet after following Dan's log and wondering if I could follow that better than the Detox diet, but my wife would kill me if I bought all those supplements and blew the family budget.

I'd be curious to how you felt if you decided to try it, maybe a log?

Elliot Royce 02-27-2007 06:09 AM

two questions:

- is it suitable if you play intense, anaerobic sports like hockey?

- where is there more information on it?

I will need to lose some weight one of these days. The alternative would be a zone diet with a lower level of calories than I currently consume.

Danny John 02-27-2007 07:01 AM

I didn't see this before...

Upsides:
28 Days is doable.
There is absolutely no Free Will involved.
There is no thought involved.
It is heroic (trust me on this...when people say "What are you doing?" you 'try' explaining it...a look of wonder comes over their face...'wow....')

Downsides:
It is not for pussies. Get your blood tests, pay for the supps, take the pics, post them on the net and get going...
The initial expense and work (filling the baggies with supps, for example)
Your family has to deal with a raving lunatic ("asshole" is the term in my home)

Mike ODonnell 02-27-2007 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allen Yeh (Post 5511)
I'd miss 3-4 meals just because an escort was needed to go anywhere out of the building

Who knew you worked at the chicken ranch????

I agree with Shaf...complete control, so you are not going over calories for a short period of time. Seems to have enough protein in it to spare muscle loss...and also adds in the ole PWO shake where pretty much all your carbs come from.

Elliot I am going to say No about playing hockey and other intense anaerobic activities....as with the limited cal and glycogen stores going to be bottomed out...you will most likely eat up alot more muscle and drop your immune system by overtraining...I believe this diet is meant only for 2-3 weight sessions a week and lower HR cardio (if any).

I'm not a bodybuilder...but I wonder if this type of diet down has been around before that older veterans might have used in their days.

It still intrigues me about the health benefit...as it is basically a "protein" shake fast. Probably a great tool to use after a "eat as much as you want" mass gaining period.


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