1st Pull Help
 

Hello Everyone,

I posted this over in Glenn's forum as well, but I thought I may get a different opinion in this forum as there can be some disagreement about form from camp to camp.

When I set up for my pulls I bring the bar close to the shin, and once I initiate the 1st pull the very first movement of the bar is away from the body. This is momentary and from the second after the bar breaks from the ground the bar starts cutting in toward my body. Now, I know that coaches prefer the bar to start mid-foot to the base of toes, but I have never been strong from this position. Should I deload and start working this out of my pull?

With my current set up, I get the shins to vertical as the bar passes the knees still, so I am not sure if it is an issue.

Here are two snatches from the same session (Approximately 95% max). One is a miss and one is a make.


Miss- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFbFr...feature=relmfu

Make - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEvkG...feature=relmfu

Thank you for any help/opinions I may receive.

The problem in a basic sense is that your balance is shifting constantly the whole way up - your bar is moving in a zig zag patter, in and out. Even in the make, your balance overall is too far forward - that's why you shift around in the bottom like that - you shove your hips forward to get them under the bar, but then have to shift back over the feet quickly to re-establish balance.

The dynamic start you're doing is the first problem. As you drop your hips into place to start, you do a weird jerking action that rolls the bar forward abruptly. Since the position itself is good, I would say yes, you're trying to set the bar too far back over your foot initially. After that jerk thing, you end up in a vertical arm position, which is what you want. So set the bar up in that position from the start.

Set up in the position you want to leave the floor from and you can put the bar as close to your shins as possible - then don't let the bar/foot relative position change during your pre-lift activities and dynamic start. You will drive yourself crazy trying to fix this stuff if you're moving the bar around before the lift even starts.

Next problem, which is where you're probably talking about disagreement being, is that you push your knees too far back as you bring the bar up and rock so far back on your heels that your toes leave the floor. This sets up the rest of the problems in the lift. Just lift the bar up and back along w your shoulders so that you maintain that approximate vertical arm orientation to the level of the knees - after that, your shoulders should start getting farther forward of the bar. Keep your weight back toward the heels, but don't get so far back that you start water skiing - that just sets up this see-saw motion and brings you too far forward afterward.

Greg, I really appreciate the analysis and the advice. I was very aware of the zigzag of the pull, but I was blind to the sea-saw affect it had on my movement.

I have a relatively weak squat, and think that I don't use enough leg drive off the floor. After reading your post it looks like I overload the hamstrings because I don't use the quads during the pull. Would you suggest concentrated pulls with a flat foot and a fixed start to correct the mechanics?

Focus on squats as upright as possible, even pause back squats; DLs or halting DLs focusing on that posture/balance from the floor to the knee and/or upper thigh; and full pulls - if you do flat-footed pulls, that will reinforce the habit of not continuing to drive up w the legs as you extend the hips at the top. Remember that driving with the legs does not inherently mean being slow at the top - it means more force directed upward and more elevation on the bar.

Greg, thanks again for the reply. I have been focusing on a very upright squat for some time now and have been alternating pause back squats and 1 & 1/4 front squats for my high volume/low intensity squat days (3 squat days during my training week).

In regards to the pulls, I will definitely finish them in full extension. I originally meant I would make a conscious effort to break from the floor without rocking back onto my heels by the "flat-footed pull" comment. I will incorporate more postural strength work with the pause pulls and maybe even controlled negatives to the correct start position.

Thanks again, and hopefully I will be able to post back a video in some time showing improvement.

I tried working on the new start position and stopping the rocking back onto my heels during my last session.

Here is a workup set at 90k: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FduCsD8wPxw&feature=plcp

Here is a longer video of most of my session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltcCt90A7fk&feature=plcp

I felt like I wasn't rocking back, but after watching the video it looks like I do still come back on the heel at the end of the 1st pull. You can definitely see that I drop my hip too low on the start during the heavier snatches. This causes me to push the bar away again, and then the zig zag pull gets worse.

Will keep all work light and a lot of pulls and pull + snatch combos until this is hammered out.