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-   -   2nd Pull Problems (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7183)

Brian Turchioe 10-03-2013 01:47 PM

2nd Pull Problems
 
Hi, I'm new to this forum and was looking for some good advice on technique. First a little background on myself and training history so you can understand where I'm coming from. I started doing crossfit about 2.5 years ago and was fascinated with the Oly lifts. I switched from crossfit to exclusively weightlifting last January and haven't looked back. I have some experienced people that I started lifting with at my gym in Virginia but I have worked largely without coaching. Now, to my current problem and reason for this thread:

I struggle, and I mean STRUGGLE, with staying long over the bar through the first portion of the 2nd pull. Once the bar clears my knees, my brain thinks GO, and my knees just shoot forward. This generally results in a poor power position and leads to me chasing the bar more often than not. I have tried to work on sweeping and keeping my knees back but it is very difficult for me. Especially when the weight gets heavy, it is very difficult to sweep and combine the lack of sweep with my knees pushing through early and I wind up jumping at least a couple inches forward to get under the bar.

What I'm looking for is any cues, drills, and other advice that will keep my knees back and sweep the bar into that sweet spot where I can really drive the bar up properly.

I apologize in advance for the long post but I thought more information is better than less.

-Brian

Blake Barnes 10-04-2013 09:58 PM

Brian,

I can picture what you're doing in my head so I'll give you some of my thoughts without actually seeing it.

The main thing I tell people when trying to initiate the 2nd pull too soon is "BE PATIENT." That 1st pull may seem like it's going to take forever (especially with the heavier weight) but let it.

Also, try thinking about keeping your feet flat longer. This may help you keep from "chasing" the bar and jumping forward.

Drills:

Halting Snatch/Clean DLs - stay over the bar throughout the movement.

http://www.catalystathletics.com/exe...exerciseID=186

http://www.catalystathletics.com/exe...exerciseID=185

Snatch/Clean from high blocks - start with your weight distributed toward the back of the foot and focus on pushing the bar all the way into your body before initiating the 2nd pull.

Charlie Reynolds 10-06-2013 10:01 AM

It would be better to see a video but taking this at face value, think about leading with your chest and driving your feet through the floor, wait until you feel the bar brush the top third of the thigh, then explode! Try some RDLs and block work.

Personally, I think if you consciously think about pushing knees back and sweeping the bar in, you end up distorting the bar path and with yourself in a bad position eg a big gap between you and the bar/a loaded pendulum (which can cause you to jump forward to try to get under...)

Brian Turchioe 10-08-2013 04:34 PM

Thanks
 
I have some cell phone videos but I'm not sure exactly how to load them up. I have started doing some block work with the cleans and hang from the knees with the snatch. One of my friends is a fan of a Don McCauley drill that is reinforcing the patience over the bar so I have been working with that as well. I appreciate the advice and I will continue to work on my lifts to the best of my ability. My first competition is in November so I'm just hoping to not look like a fool. I'll figure out ways to post some videos in the coming weeks to track progress.

-Brian

Charlie Reynolds 10-09-2013 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Turchioe (Post 100716)
I have some cell phone videos but I'm not sure exactly how to load them up. I have started doing some block work with the cleans and hang from the knees with the snatch. One of my friends is a fan of a Don McCauley drill that is reinforcing the patience over the bar so I have been working with that as well. I appreciate the advice and I will continue to work on my lifts to the best of my ability. My first competition is in November so I'm just hoping to not look like a fool. I'll figure out ways to post some videos in the coming weeks to track progress.

-Brian

Good luck for the comp! Just aim for 6/6 and equal/new PR on the last attempts. Everyone starts somewhere, be positive :)

Personally I think blocks are better than hang

Brian Turchioe 10-10-2013 03:40 PM

I've already started to notice a difference with doing the drills although when the weights get heavier I start to revert back to my old habits (i know, patience is key). Since I started this thread I thought I'd tack on another question:

I've noticed with a lot of technically proficient lifters (but not all) that there is a noticeable rattle w/ the weights/bar when the 2nd pull is initiated. I lack this noise at the point of bar contact. Should that noise really be a goal or is it just something that happens with some lifters and not others. It makes me think that maybe my pull isn't violent enough. Anyway, I'll just keep lifting and doing drills and maybe this will resolve itself

Brian Turchioe 10-10-2013 04:54 PM

Video
 
also forgot I have a online video of my previous PR of 195# on snatch. Currently an 85kilo lifter btw.

http://www.coachseye.com/g98D

Charlie Reynolds 10-11-2013 03:05 AM

it's quite normal to revert to old habits near max, this will get better over time as you know. It's just about reinforcing the new/good habits ie lots of good quality volume (obviously the more good quality work near 100% the better but one step at a time!). Don't worry about hearing/forcing the rattle, that's a product of close contact and powerful hip extension. A couple of things to work on IMO keep your weight a bit more centred/mid foot for the first pull (your toes are coming up which suggests your weight is too far in the back of the heel) and keep your elbows turned out/pronated throughout the pull - your arms should be long and loose (then punch and push!) but I think this may be the main culprit of your short pulling etc ie you're trying to finish the pull with your arms.

Peter Maxwell 10-11-2013 02:04 PM

Extension or bump or swing
 
I am new to weightlifting.

I looked at Brian's video of the snatch (which was posted after the commencement and receipt of suggestions) and its done real fast but it appeared to me that it was a bump & swing style as opposed to the triple extension style of snatch (1st pull, 2nd pull & explode all the time keeping the bar close).

If it is a bump & swing style of snatch my query is whether the suggestions provided before the video link post are still applicable??

cheers

Blake Barnes 10-11-2013 09:54 PM

Brian,

Your weight should be mid foot in the starting position as Charlie said. When you lift the bar off of the floor your weight should be shifting back like you do. Then you roll forward to the toes as you extend. That roll forward is making your weight shift forward which is leading to you jumping forward.

I would still say to keep your feet flat longer to help prevent the forward weight shift.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Maxwell (Post 100737)
I am new to weightlifting.

I looked at Brian's video of the snatch (which was posted after the commencement and receipt of suggestions) and its done real fast but it appeared to me that it was a bump & swing style as opposed to the triple extension style of snatch (1st pull, 2nd pull & explode all the time keeping the bar close).

If it is a bump & swing style of snatch my query is whether the suggestions provided before the video link post are still applicable??

cheers

I would say all of those suggestions would be applicable in this situation.


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