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-   -   Taking Shaf from 6 to 20 pullups in 6 weeks (http://www.catalystathletics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=728)

James Evans 03-27-2007 06:49 AM

Taking Shaf from 6 to 20 pullups in 6 weeks
 
This is a spin off from Shaf's 'Write me a program' thread and an up front big sorry if it's flogging a dead horse.

It was suggested improving from 6 to 20 pull ups in 6 weeks was a perfectly attainable goal. I'd like to know how you would train him for this.

Mike Boyle has an 8 week chin up progression that takes you from 1 chin to 5 chins in, er, 8 weeks. 14 pull ups for a trained, or even a detrained strength athlete in 6 weeks seems a lot.

Yes, I know, someone asks about pullups over at CrossFit every bloody day, I'm just interested because I thought Shaf's thread tailed off pretty quickly.

Mike ODonnell 03-27-2007 08:25 AM

I think 6 weeks is pretty long.....diet someone down (lose a little weight)...and have them do chinups of some variation everyday....jumping....GTG 1-3reps....weighted.....and that is an easily attainable goal in probably a month. Call me an optimist.....

Rick Deckart 03-27-2007 08:50 AM

I said from 6 to 15 is perfectly doable, although I didn't know his BW then. But just out of academic interest and assuming he would loose some weight during the time-span this how I would try to get there:

17 sessions (certainly not the best program, but for higher reps it works extremely well...):

1. 13 reps x 3 sets ; deloaded with a strong band attached to the bar
2. 13 reps x 5 sets ; deloaded with a strong band attached to the bar
3. 13 reps x 8 sets ; deloaded with a strong band attached to the bar
4. 13 reps x 11 sets ; deloaded with a strong band attached to the bar
5. 13 reps x 13 sets ; deloaded with a strong band attached to the bar
6. 12 reps x 5 sets ; deloaded with an average band attached to the bar
7. 12 reps x 8 sets ; deloaded with an average band attached to the bar
8. 12 reps x 10 sets ; deloaded with an average band attached to the bar
9. 12 reps x 12 sets ; deloaded with an average band attached to the bar
10. 11 reps x 5 sets ; deloaded with a small band attached to the bar
11. 11 reps x 8 sets ; deloaded with a small band attached to the bar
12. 11 reps x 11 sets ; deloaded with a small band attached to the bar
13. 10 reps x 5 sets
14. 10 reps x 10 sets
15. 9 reps x 9 sets; loaded with 5--7.5kg
16. 8 reps x 8 sets; loaded with 10--15kg
17. 7 reps x 7 sets; loaded with 15--22.5kg

Rest at least a day between sessions and two days after every minicycle. All pullups in strict fashion, no kipping. (Kipping pullups IMO wouldn't need six weeks...) I would very probably use a second excercise, supersetted with the pullups, say KB swings, same reps and sets or higher reps and same number of sets, say for example session 1--5: 16kg KB x 20 reps x 3--13 sets, session 6--9: 24kg x 18 reps x 5--12 sets, session 10--12: 32kg KB x 16 reps x 5--11 sets. After that drop the KB swings to get some sort of volume taper.

I will do something similar this autumn to try to get my sots press to a BW sotspress and btw also achieve an one arm chinup, although I may fail misserably... If the above template is not sufficient, wait at least a week, better more, and repeat with 20--25% more load but same template (although doing the full cycle again could bring him probably to 20--25 strict pullups).

I would bet money for donats, that is 20 bucks against one donat, that he could do 15 strict pullups after that routine and it would take a little less than six weeks. The whole thing is not my invention but it works extremely well in my experience (but I have to admit that I used it only for OHS so far, but with excellent results). And I would be curious to see if other people could get similar results with the template. While not difficult it is extremely monotonous and boring and you can't cope with much else...

Steve Shafley 03-27-2007 09:47 AM

Sweet topic.

I'll be back on Saturday. I have to go to Chicago to inspect my new nephew.

Allen Yeh 03-27-2007 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Shafley (Post 7414)
Sweet topic.

I'll be back on Saturday. I have to go to Chicago to inspect my new nephew.

Spartan style?

(refers to 300...so if you haven't seen the movie..just disregard!)

Pierre Auge 03-27-2007 10:31 AM

Steve,
yes I think it is pretty easily attainable with some effort!

Mike ODonnell 03-27-2007 10:33 AM

Solution...time, 5 minutes

Lower the bar.

Pavel Saenz 03-28-2007 07:57 AM

Peter what is the resting time between sets in your recommended program?
Thanks

James Evans 03-28-2007 09:20 AM

Peter,

You did indeed say 15, at first. Dave mentioned 20 then thought more about the time frame. But you did later say 15-20.

And these are dead hangs. No kipping allowed. Because I say so.

I like your idea though. Do you reckon that is more efficient than:

1. 10 x 4
2. 10 x 5
3. 10 x 6
etc.

type progressions where you are just gradually increasing reps?

I was mulling this over in my head and using the comparison of achieving 20 reps in the press at a given weight when my current score was 5. Would I just lift the same weight again and again increasing the reps (hopefully) each time or would I decrease the load and build up? Probably the latter.

So if I wanted to press 60kg 20 times, I might do something like this

1. 45k x 20 x 3
2. 46k x 20 x 3
3. 47k x 20 x 3


But then I thought about press ups and there I would probably just increase reps from day to day. I really wouldn't make this too scientific at all.

MOD mentions GTG which might probably work well for Shaf. Rubbish for someone who works in a bank or office etc. and doesn't have all day access to a pull up bar. Every time he logs onto a forum he has to bang out some pullups.

Rick Deckart 03-28-2007 10:06 AM

Damn it, I forgot the latter post. Did I really say so? Well I know that I could do that in six weeks, but I am not at 6 reps in the pullups...

James,

I have tinkered with these derivates of the German Volume Protocol in the past and one session of the template above is a German Volume template (session 14: 10 reps x 10 sets with bodyweight). If I had to choose between your and my template I would choose mine (which really isn't mine) because a) I know it worked for me beyond my expectations (pathetic phrase but it's true) and b) because it is a lot more volume than your approach. And I am now a very very strong believer in volume based training. Not the answer for everything, not suited for everyone ,not applicable everytime, but extremely powerfull if applied with care. With you approach I would expect to hit a plateau VERY soon, unless you wave the reps somewhat but that is additional time you have to calculate into the program.

I intend to do my little program around autum, while I will use bands, I will use these to load the pullups. And I won't use KB swings but sotspresses as a second excercise in this template. I will report whatever the outcome of the experiment. AFAIK I am the only person I know of who finished the program (with the exception of John Bott through whom I first heard of it)

But do you believe Shaf would actually do one of those programs? I think he wouldn't use mine even if I paid him to do so LOL. It is that boring, GVT is nothing against it. Also I remember he once stated that he had very high doubts that such an approach could produce results like the results I reported.

So here is plan B for Shaf, very easy to include into your daily routine:
Do 2-3 sets of 20 pullups with plenty rest inbetween, use a strong band or any suitable combination of bands to deload the pullup. Do that daily, after one week switch to the next lower band and so forth. End of week six test pullups without bands.

Pavel, I used 90 seconds between sets, sometimes one min after the OHS I did and two minutes after the KB swings. But if one would need more time, no problem just rest longer.


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