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Old 06-14-2007, 12:20 PM   #11
joe murphy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Ross Hunt View Post
If you're going to contend that using shame to reinforce morality (in this case, self-restraint) is dated, it seems to me that you need to make some sort of argument to the effect that it isn't necessary.
so now the kid's fat is a moral issue? please ...
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Old 06-14-2007, 01:38 PM   #12
Dave Van Skike
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Quote:
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If you're going to contend that using shame to reinforce morality (in this case, self-restraint) is dated, it seems to me that you need to make some sort of argument to the effect that it isn't necessary.
When your only tool is a hammer, all your problems look like nails.

He's not saying it isn't "neccesary"
to reduce childhood obesity, he's saying shame is a dangerous way to motivate people.

There is a great article flaoting out there, I'll look for it, maybe it was the Atlantic monthly that looks at Shame as a cultural tool. The article was about 20 pages long but very good, if not entirely conclusive on way or the other.

I would suggest the sporting, physical enhancement, health and longetvity communty (whatever PM falls into) both owes a debt to and must wrestle against the way our culture hamfistedly uses shame to spur people to action.
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Old 06-15-2007, 12:29 PM   #13
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Speaking as a former fat kid (the kindest of my nicknames was "Pillsbury Doughboy", it all went downhill from there), allow me to assure you that *every* fat kid out there knows he's fat, and already feels shame about it.

Having his doctor and/or parents beating him up, too, isn't going to do anything that daily playground humiliation isn't already accomplishing.

I like Mike's view: separate "identity" from the current physical condition, and show them a way out. Show that you care about them, enough to actually work with them on it.

(When I was 12, I was hospitalized for something or other. I was in PT and watching this other kid (about my age, and *very* fit (washboard abs and all that, at 12)) doing situps under the watchful eye of both the PT and his father. I remember hating myself, my fat body, and wishing that someone showed as much interest in helping me as those two adults were doing for him. But my parents were into the "shame" method.)

Yes, it may take some trouble to get them there, and yes, they will eventually have to do it themselves. I lost weight (at 16) when my father gave me a goal (climbing Mt. Whitney by moonlight) which I was willing to suffer some discomfort for.
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Old 06-15-2007, 01:28 PM   #14
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Having his doctor and/or parents beating him up, too, isn't going to do anything that daily playground humiliation isn't already accomplishing.
It's hard especially when dealing with kids....as I know what teasing can lead too (all the years of 4 eyes.....). BUT doctors (and parents) need to realize though that if they are keeping the kids obese (aka shortening their life span and taking away from their health), then THEY are failing at their job. Much like if you are a trainer and your client is not losing fat, you need to be fired. Most people never listen to the nice friendly advice doctors give out....and tend to only listen to the harsher "Do this to get healthy or you will die..." type of advice.....so finding the correct way to get the end result is all that should matter....and people should not associate themselves with how they look, etc...unlike what mainstream media would have you believe....a person can change all the stuff on the outside...it doesn't change the inside.
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Old 06-15-2007, 02:10 PM   #15
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...a whole lot of warm & fuzzy memories floating around this thread. I think we should all take a page out of Dale Sturtevant's book. It may not directly relate but I think there are some very good parallels.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...D=15748 48938
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Old 06-15-2007, 03:43 PM   #16
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That is gold.
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Old 06-16-2007, 05:38 AM   #17
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I don't think there's a single obese child (or adult) who isn't aware 24 hours a day of their obesity, particularly in this more body conscious time. So it's not a matter of telling them they're obese (might as well point out that teenagers have acne on their faces), but rather pointing them towards some solutions. I suspect that many doctors are not well-equipped to give the kid a concrete path to more exercise and a better diet. Perhaps this already exists, but pediatricians should have a nutrition/training consultant in their offices and insurance should cover the cost of some guidance on diet and exercise for the kids (monthly review sessions or something).
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