Home   |   Contact   |   Help

Get Our Newsletter
Sign up for our free newsletter to get training tips and stay up to date on Catalyst Athletics, and get a FREE issue of the Performance Menu journal.

Go Back   Catalyst Athletics Forums > Training > Olympic Weightlifting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-21-2007, 12:33 AM   #1
Brandon Enos
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: California
Posts: 171
Default Bench Press versus Dip

Okay, I started a 5x5 type of program this week. On Wednesday, my press was the bench. I used to have problems with it, but I went back and worked on my form, no more shoulder problems, but thats beside the point.

I know in the 5x5 post earlier, the bench was brought up a lot. I know in Starting Strength (great book btw), it is part of the program, but when Mark Rippetoe talks about it, its almost as if he dislikes it and is including it for no other reason then its popularity.

My questin is, since I am not trying to become a powerlifter, nor am I in any kind of sport or group where the bench will be a measure of "manliness", should I just do away with it and work on dips and eventually weighted dips in its place?

What do you think?
Brandon Enos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2007, 05:49 AM   #2
Allen Yeh
Senior Member
 
Allen Yeh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 4,245
Default

What is your goal right now?

I'd say that the dip and weighted dip seem to be more "functional" than the bench press but I personally would never completely take it out of my exercise selection.
__________________
"And for crying out loud. Don't go into the pain cave. I can't stress this enough. Your Totem Animal won't be in there to help you. You'll be on your own. The Pain Cave is for cowards.
Pain is your companion, don't go hide from it."
-Kelly Starrett
Allen Yeh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2007, 02:24 PM   #3
Elliot Royce
Senior Member
 
Elliot Royce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 317
Default

I subbed the push press (or military press or similar) for it and, while I'm probably down from my max bench press, my chest is solid enough. The vertical presses preceded the bench press anyway.
Elliot Royce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2007, 04:47 PM   #4
Dave Van Skike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,738
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Enos View Post
Okay, I started a 5x5 type of program this week. On Wednesday, my press was the bench. I used to have problems with it, but I went back and worked on my form, no more shoulder problems, but thats beside the point.

I know in the 5x5 post earlier, the bench was brought up a lot. I know in Starting Strength (great book btw), it is part of the program, but when Mark Rippetoe talks about it, its almost as if he dislikes it and is including it for no other reason then its popularity.

My questin is, since I am not trying to become a powerlifter, nor am I in any kind of sport or group where the bench will be a measure of "manliness", should I just do away with it and work on dips and eventually weighted dips in its place?

What do you think?
I think you're misreading Rip. the bench is certainly overdone but it is a pretty damn good exercise.

If your goal is building muscle and/or power in your upper body, pairing the bench and bench derivatives (close grip, dumbell, incline etc.) with overhead presses, rows and pull ups is hard to beat. dips are boring. I know of no strength or mass gain program built around dips. they are useful I guess, but not the best tool in the box.
__________________
Practical Strength
Dave Van Skike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2007, 06:49 AM   #5
Steve Liberati
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 459
Default

I wouldn't eliminate the BP from your program, yet I wouldn't make it a staple either. It has its place when strength is the goal. If anything I'd use it as one of the exercises to test your upper body strength and overall progress. Say every 3 weeks or so toss it in. In the meantime, work on the bench derivatives as Dave suggested above. Oh yeah lets not forget Ring Dips. They're bad ass.
__________________
100,000 generations of humans have been hunters and gatherers; 500 generations have been agriculturalists; ten have lived in the industrial age; and only one has been exposed to the world of computers.

Steve's Club
Crossfit Tribe
Steve Liberati is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2007, 07:07 PM   #6
Steven Low
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,091
Default

Contrary to Dave:

Speaking as a gymnast who has never done a bench ever, I can tell you that dips and overhead pressing (usually HSPUs) can build a high degree of strength and muscle mass. I've heard somewhere that dips are the squat of the upper body, and I tend to believe that notion.
Steven Low is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2007, 11:42 PM   #7
Dave Van Skike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,738
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
Contrary to Dave:

Speaking as a gymnast who has never done a bench ever, I can tell you that dips and overhead pressing (usually HSPUs) can build a high degree of strength and muscle mass. I've heard somewhere that dips are the squat of the upper body, and I tend to believe that notion.
there you go Brandon, different perspectives. if you have means to progressively overload dips and HSPU then by all means give it a try instead of bench if that floats your boat. The only downside is that it might not work as well as as Rip rx'ed it in the program. hell, dips might even work better for you. I dislike dips and use bench very sparingly to assist overhead preses. I avoid it specifically for its propensity to build mass..I have no need for big man boobs. So, use whichever you like but keep to the guidelines of the program, 3-5 sets ending at a set 5 fairly heavy..try it for a while and see if it works for you. post a log, get back to us.
__________________
Practical Strength
Dave Van Skike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2007, 01:13 AM   #8
Charles Johnson
New Member
 
Charles Johnson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 20
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
Contrary to Dave:

Speaking as a gymnast who has never done a bench ever, I can tell you that dips and overhead pressing (usually HSPUs) can build a high degree of strength and muscle mass. I've heard somewhere that dips are the squat of the upper body, and I tend to believe that notion.

I think it was Mke Mentzer of HIT fame that coined that phrase,I could be wrong but Im sure it was either him or Authur Jones. As for replacing Bench with dips Id never do it but I tend to feel a sharp pain in my delts when I do dips, you can use more weight on Benches too.
Charles Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2007, 03:50 AM   #9
Steven Low
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,091
Default

Nah, you can use more weight on dips (if you include pushing your bodyweight) just like pullups are stronger than rows even though you move more externally with rows. Lat and chest recruitment is a major factor in each.
Steven Low is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2007, 07:17 AM   #10
Allen Yeh
Senior Member
 
Allen Yeh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 4,245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
Nah, you can use more weight on dips (if you include pushing your bodyweight) just like pullups are stronger than rows even though you move more externally with rows. Lat and chest recruitment is a major factor in each.

Depends upon what levels you are comparing, I have serious doubts that a 200# powerlifter that can bench 500-600 can add 300-400#'s on dips?
__________________
"And for crying out loud. Don't go into the pain cave. I can't stress this enough. Your Totem Animal won't be in there to help you. You'll be on your own. The Pain Cave is for cowards.
Pain is your companion, don't go hide from it."
-Kelly Starrett
Allen Yeh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:09 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Subscribe to our Newsletter


Receive emails with training tips, news updates, events info, sale notifications and more.
ASK GREG

Submit your question to be answered by Greg Everett in the Performance Menu or on the website

Submit Your Question
WEIGHTLIFTING TEAM

Catalyst Athletics is a USA Weightlifting team of competitive Olympic-style weightlifters with multiple national team medals.

Read More
Olympic Weightlifting Book
Catalyst Athletics
Contact Us
About
Help
Newsletter
Products & Services
Gym
Store
Seminars
Weightlifting Team
Performance Menu
Magazine Home
Subscriber Login
Issues
Articles
Workouts
About the Program
Workout Archives
Exercise Demos
Text Only
Instructional Content
Exercise Demos
Video Gallery
Free Articles
Free Recipes
Resources
Recommended Books & DVDs
Olympic Weightlifting Guide
Discussion Forum
Weight Conversion Calculator