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Old 09-07-2007, 09:38 AM   #21
Pierre Auge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb Wolf View Post
Has anyone messed with the combined CF/PL template Jason Bagwell put forward a couple years ago? Tweaking this to the press seems like a nice way to go.

Josh, do you remember this template?
Robb,
yes I've played around with it quite a bit and it works very very well. One note I will make and this is right out of the mouth of Rip and into my programing which I've shown to be very productive is to keep your deadlifts down to 1 set of 5 per week. Or 5 singles once per week. That is the only modification I would make to what Josh posted at the beginning or to the Bagwell program.

While Bagwell due to time constraints places the lift immediately before or after the WOD, it is far more productive to have a fixed linear program performed say late afternoon to mid evening while performing the wod in the morning. So basically you end up doing a WOD then an ME workout later in the day. I recommend no more than 3 movements at a time and keeping the volume very low. Say 15 total reps or less - that's where I've seen the best results in programing. It also makes that the ME blocks usually takes less than 30 minutes. <20minute WOD + <30minute ME the volume stays low but the weight stays very high relatively progressing linearly week per week. Huge gains...

If people are looking to gain mass the high velocity, moderate volume WODs are best for promoting that. Eat a shit-load immediately after your WOD and you'll grow like a weed. That combined with the hormonal response generated by the heavy lifting in the evening can and does produce some wicked results if thats what you're looking for.
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Old 09-07-2007, 10:17 AM   #22
Dave Van Skike
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Peter, I know you like spreadsheets, here's one I tweaked form Madcow's Bill Starr 5x5 for novice/intermediate lifters.

Linkylink.
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File Type: pdf CF total example.pdf (14.2 KB, 30 views)
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Old 09-07-2007, 10:24 AM   #23
Dave Van Skike
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Robb,
yes I've played around with it quite a bit and it works very very well. One note I will make and this is right out of the mouth of Rip and into my programing which I've shown to be very productive is to keep your deadlifts down to 1 set of 5 per week. Or 5 singles once per week. That is the only modification I would make to what Josh posted at the beginning or to the Bagwell program.

While Bagwell due to time constraints places the lift immediately before or after the WOD, it is far more productive to have a fixed linear program performed say late afternoon to mid evening while performing the wod in the morning. So basically you end up doing a WOD then an ME workout later in the day. I recommend no more than 3 movements at a time and keeping the volume very low. Say 15 total reps or less - that's where I've seen the best results in programing. It also makes that the ME blocks usually takes less than 30 minutes. <20minute WOD + <30minute ME the volume stays low but the weight stays very high relatively progressing linearly week per week. Huge gains...

If people are looking to gain mass the high velocity, moderate volume WODs are best for promoting that. Eat a shit-load immediately after your WOD and you'll grow like a weed. That combined with the hormonal response generated by the heavy lifting in the evening can and does produce some wicked results if thats what you're looking for.
Why ME later? Seems the opposite, morning ME, metcon later is more intuitive....lift heavy while fresh...
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Old 09-07-2007, 10:47 AM   #24
Rick Deckart
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Thanks everybody, lots of good advice! I just have to set my priorities straight...

Dave,

thanks for the example, although I only have the standard Acrobat reader and can't change that values... I will have a look into it, btw will you try that schedule? I remember you once mentioned that being good in the CFT was one of you goals.

Pierre,

I would agree with Dave, if the strength work is the focus of the whole project, do it first. Is your recommendation based on experience, i.e. did you or trainees try out both variants, and would you say that this sequence maximises the impact of the strength exercises or was the focus more on overall improvement, in which case I would probably go with your sequence as 'skill work' should always be done fresh.
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:10 AM   #25
Dave Van Skike
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Peter, send me a PM with your email, I'll send you an excel spreadsheet.

Yup. you're right, CF total comprises the base of thsi year's goal. I've had a good long break from the gym and am starting back on a linear progression, that example is my next 9 weeks. It's very similar to the texas progression I was one just a more basic linear 5x5, that's worked for a lot of people. I figure I hate 5's for a reason so I better work on them.

I'm interested in Pierre's rationale, I wouldn't be suprised if there is something at going on that I'm not seeing with metcon first ME after?
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:12 AM   #26
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I did an almost identical mod to the Madcow template, but I have Overhead Squats on Wednesday instead of push press. I follow with a shorter WOD on Wednesdays and Fridays and have been loving it so far.

link to the original Madcow template:

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...diate_v0.3.zip
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:18 AM   #27
Dave Van Skike
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Originally Posted by Eric Jones View Post
I did an almost identical mod to the Madcow template, but I have Overhead Squats on Wednesday instead of push press. I follow with a shorter WOD on Wednesdays and Fridays and have been loving it so far.

link to the original Madcow template:

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...diate_v0.3.zip
Nice! One thing I really liked about the Rippatoe, Heavy Light Medium thing is the front squats on light days, you can keep percentage high while still giving yourself a break...Overheads woudl work good for that too, maybe better dependign on where your weaknesses are.
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:40 AM   #28
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In the original piece Bagwell mentioned that some of the strength sessions were performed fresh and some while fatigued. Part of work capacity development if I recall.
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Old 09-07-2007, 11:55 AM   #29
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I thought the Bagwell piece was nicely done. And he seemed to also have proven it in competition with his HS lifters.

The press can be approached in the same fashion as the bench press, or, really, as any other lift.

The one thing that seemed to jump out though, while looking at the training regimens of old OLs who contested the press, was that the press was trained more frequently than the other contested lifts. I would also hold this to be true when compared to the bench press.

A concurrent or conjugate approach to training the press would work just fine. In my personal practice, I've noticed the press stalls out fairly quickly, but it's extremely easy to switch exercises and keep on making improvements.

My list of special exercises for the press include:

-parallel grip press (log bar or shrug bar)
-dumbbell press (1 or 2 dbs)
-the side press (as described by Tsatsouline in PTP) - one armed barbell press
-push press
-push jerk
-jerk
-rack presses from various heights (chin level, eye level, top of head level)

Etc

I found the press ->push press combo worked very well

Also, I found press "starts" worked well. Keith Wassung has a good article about training the press somewhere.
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:00 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Steve Shafley View Post
Also, I found press "starts" worked well. Keith Wassung has a good article about training the press somewhere.
Thanks Steve,

actually I believe the article is on P&B, wait a sec, here
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