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Old 09-07-2007, 12:13 PM   #31
Pierre Auge
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Robb,
I'm no scientist (yet) but all of my observations have told me that this cycling back and forth between working fresh and fatigued is quite successful at improving work capacity. Biggest observation - lifting heavy after Helen sucks ass!

My rational when I started cycling the lifting later in the day post WOD was that most of my people (those who were doing this, as well as myself) were noticing a second wind effect late afternoon to mid evening when they worked out early morning. In fact I noticed superior performance in everyone while lifting later in the day post WOD than early in the morning doing Bagwell style training. I've no guess as to what is going on but it works.

One thing I can tell you is that while the lifts go up the metcon stays high as well. That rest period between sessions mixed with the moderate to low volumes seems to be key.

Those are my observations as a coach.

Keep the WODs less than 20 minutes in duration but use relatively heavy weights. (I like to use % of BW) Keep the lifting sessions as heavy as possible but with a minimal volume as I said previously.

I think the issue is the thing that most people forget in their training regime, rest management. I'd have to say it's probably the most important aspect of ones performance and the least considered.

I also believe that there is a correlation between mean and peak power output during training sessions but I have no compiled numbers to make any valid arguments toward this. Theory is that there is more correlation between peak and mean daily power output vs rest activity during athletic performance than there is vs. say something like absolute/potential or maximal strength.
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:16 PM   #32
Steve Shafley
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There's also the well documented effect that you tend to be stronger later in the day.
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Old 09-07-2007, 12:50 PM   #33
Pierre Auge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Shafley View Post
There's also the well documented effect that you tend to be stronger later in the day.
Again I think this is almost certainly due to a combination of endocrine response relative to rest management. Gymnasts and Weightlifters alike tend to train hardest in the morning and leave the more demanding loads in practice until later in the day.

This is where I contend that where power output is minimal I use the term practice rather than training. Which I why I say that a morning WOD is training and the afternoon session practice. The volume and the velocity just isn't there, it's not enough to produce any kind of significant systemic fatigue but enough to make one strong mother*#&#$ person.

And if you are to look at most PL workouts they look alot like practice sessions rather than balls out training hence the low work capacity on average. OL training very similarly and gymnasts also similarly. This is why I think they are very good at their elements (or modes/modalities) but poor at others. Though gymnasts and Weightlifters due to the skill requirements of their activities adapt faster to alterations in training than other less skill dependent athletes.
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:18 PM   #34
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Interesting observations. I wonder if part of this can be attributed to the relative training "age" of the subject. Someone who is a "novice" by the Rip definition woudl be able to mix and match probably with no ill effect. A more advanced lifter who is more sensitive to training overload would not be able to mix it up as much.....

I'll have to give this a try.
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:23 PM   #35
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Thanks Steve,

actually I believe the article is on P&B, wait a sec, here
Love that article.
Take away message....anyone that can bench 225 should be able to get 300 overhead......... Hmmm. ok. .
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Old 09-07-2007, 01:32 PM
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Old 09-14-2007, 06:54 AM   #36
Robb Wolf
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GREAT thread! Pierre...really interesting stuff. Only a week into this but here is how I've parcelled things out:

Day-1 DL 5 heavy singles, Press variant- 3x5. WOD-Ol emphasis with either DB or BB. When we went to CF San Francisco over the weekend we did 1-10-1 BB snatch (95lbs) and pull ups. Adrian is a BASTARD!

Day-2 Light gymnastics-handstands and HS walking...practice for 1 arm PU. 1-2 hrs of fairly easy, technical BJJ.

Day-3 Back squat and weighted Pull up both at 3x5. WOD


Day4-same as 2

Day-5 power clean-thinking speed pulling here 5x2, press variant 3x5. WOD.

Since we are at the gym M-F no matter what it's nice to just run with a format that lets me take advantage of that but that keeps me out of the gym on the weekends. Many of the WOD's have a Power Bias...2-4 min rests, really hard on the runs and an inclusion of OL variants and assistance exercises.

So far it looks fun, not too much volume/intensity. Along that line I am thinking about keeping the WOD's the same but using a stair step process of increasing and decreasing the volume. For example I did 3 rounds of frellen last Friday (400m run, 15 thrusters, 15 pull-ups). today I'm going to cut that volume in half (400M run, 15 thrusters, 15 pull-ups-1 round, 200m run, 7 thrusters, 7 pull-ups). Next week I'll shoot for 4 rounds...the following week 2 rounds etc.

Not sure how that will work but it gives me a little structure and it plans in what are comparatively easy days/weeks. Thinking about doing something similar on the strength work once i get my numbers back up.

Thoughts and inputs are welcome. I'm going to start posting some of this at my blog. Accountability and a nice experiment.
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Old 09-14-2007, 12:13 PM   #37
Pierre Auge
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Robb,
as per your volume loading one thing I've played with is time:load relation which seems to work.

Ie:
<20min 25% BW - <15min 33% BW - <10min 50% BW - <5min >75% BW

Cycling through this type of orientation seems to keep the intensity up all the while training every energy system and organic component. Seems t work well on a M-F schedule.
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