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Old 10-22-2007, 12:15 PM   #11
Troy Archie
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All I can post is what's been working for me as of late. I agree with everything that Mike says, especially about the having a life part. Not having to tote around a ton of food like a maniac is grand.

I fast about 18-20hours a day, sans Sunday. The fast ends pre-workout, in which I have a huge protein/fat/veggie meal about an hour before my workout. Lift hard, lift heavy and then have a PWO carb/protein meal with something like squash or yams as my carb source and a bunch of veggies.

My plan is set around trying to get all of my calories and have a workout within the same time frame, usually 4 hours. Seems to be working so far. I've been finding I need less food doing this, my recovery is up, the bar keeps getting heavier and my BF% isn't going thru the roof. I'm doing Starting Strength 5x3 template 3 days a week and nothing else except the odd wall climb.

Off the top Eric, the only thing that I can say is stop doing so much. IF does have a factor in it but I think your activity level has more to do with it. I also think there comes a time when you have to look at your goals and address them one at a time not mixing them into a big pot and hoping for the best. Right now my goals are strength, size, power and nothing but. I'm willing to but some kg's on and let my BF% increase a bit because I know in the long run it'll be for the best health, performance, longevity and quality of life wise. Another CF'er asked me, "is being 5'-11" and 150-155lbs healthy?"

I would love to be able to put 25lbs lean mass on, while increasing my squat/presses and at the same time keep my metabolic conditioning up but it just isn't going to happen for me and probably +95% of the population out there.
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Old 10-22-2007, 12:50 PM   #12
Neill Smith
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Great thread guys.

I'm also working with a paleo/IF/CLC hybrid:
  • CA WOD shifted so that rest days are Tuesday and Friday
  • BJJ 2-3x per week
  • 18-hour fast on Monday and Thursday
  • Paleo low-carb six days/week (including fasting days)
  • Mostly paleo carb-up on either Saturday or Sunday
I've only been doing this for a couple of weeks now. I'd love to hear what people think of the design.
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Old 10-22-2007, 02:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Archie View Post
I've been finding I need less food doing this, my recovery is up, the bar keeps getting heavier and my BF% isn't going thru the roof.
I know it's been said before but what Troy mentioned is another key reason why I love IF.....less food needed to maintain or build muscle....more consistent energy....and less oxidative damage through digestion which has been linked to the ageing process (see all those CR studies). So why not build or maintain on less food, stronger immune system and more stable energy? Seems like a win win to me....of course there is always a limit as I am not doing 3-4 hours of exercise a day...so of course results and recovery needs will vary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Archie View Post
I would love to be able to put 25lbs lean mass on, while increasing my squat/presses and at the same time keep my metabolic conditioning up but it just isn't going to happen for me and probably +95% of the population out there.
Naturally....no probably not...but then again 10lbs is alot of muscle to put on in a year....and still keep lean....you don't need 25lbs to "look" like you put on 25....the leaner you are...the more an extra 5-10lbs of muscle will be amplified because of the way it stands out with such a low bf%.
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Old 10-22-2007, 02:03 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Neill Occhiogrosso View Post
Great thread guys.

I'm also working with a paleo/IF/CLC hybrid:
  • CA WOD shifted so that rest days are Tuesday and Friday
  • BJJ 2-3x per week
  • 18-hour fast on Monday and Thursday
  • Paleo low-carb six days/week (including fasting days)
  • Mostly paleo carb-up on either Saturday or Sunday
I've only been doing this for a couple of weeks now. I'd love to hear what people think of the design.
Well I'd ask first...how do you feel and how is your strength and body composition changing? If you give all positive feedback then I would say "looks like it is working great!". Of course the first sign of overtraining or under-recovery will be decreased performance. I am sure you can adjust the fat calories during the week to sustain the energy levels needed. Then weekends you can test how much carbs are needed to replenish....or just enjoy the day off but keep a look out to make sure the bf% isn't creeping up too fast...if it is then cut back on the carbs or spread them out more evenly...fat gain like that is the "spillover" affect...and everyone's point is individualistic due to varying insulin resistance and the likes.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:02 PM   #15
Scotty Hagnas
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I'm doing the CA WODs, also. I do the Paleo/IF low carb as well - but I'm not looking to put on weight right now. I average 17 blocks protein, ~7 blocks of carbs (almost all veggies), and around 125 g fat. (I hate using the blocks for fat) I use yams or squash for PWO carbs, but only if there is a decent volume of metcon work.

Energy/recovery has been good - sleep good, no illnesses in a long time. Bringing the fat up a bit would cause some mass gain - I may do this again later in the winter. It is suprising how little you need to eat to gain muscle while consistently IFing.

Though I have mentioned it before, I have a 30 day food log w/mealtimes on my blog. (today will be the last entry) A few simple recipes are within the log. You can see that I IF most days of the week, but with only 1 or 2 longer fasts of 20-22 hrs.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:02 PM   #16
Eric Jones
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Awesome stuff guys! Definitely alot to think about. This really came out of the observation that I was Paleo/IF during the week and high-ish carb (read, beer and going out with friends) on the weekends. I am in college lol. The thing is that I was feeling and performing better just as you said.

I will open the IF window progressively the next couple weeks and increase the KCALs see what happens...
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:31 PM   #17
Troy Archie
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You can see that I IF most days of the week, but with only 1 or 2 longer fasts of 20-22 hrs.
Is this because your WO session are while you're fasted?
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Old 10-23-2007, 09:04 PM   #18
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I do almost always work out fasted - and often wait to eat a few hours after that. This plan seems to work best for me - energy good, and little hunger - and it goes with the varying schedule that I have each day.
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Old 10-24-2007, 09:45 AM   #19
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I'll admit I'll skeptical about working out till 8 and not eating until the next afternoon. Maybe it's habit. I'll have to see how things pan out when I try it all out next week.
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Old 10-24-2007, 11:57 AM   #20
Troy Archie
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I'll admit I'll skeptical about working out till 8 and not eating until the next afternoon. Maybe it's habit. I'll have to see how things pan out when I try it all out next week.
Do what works for you man. Here's my schedual:
Start fast about 9pm.
Fast untill about 4:30pm the following day (19-20h fast).
Workout at 6-6:30pm.
Eat about 7:30-8:30 post-workout.
Start fast about 9pm.
Fast untill about 4:30pm the following day (19-20h fast).

I've been trying to get all my calories within the same time frame as my workouts. My mindset has been that the calories I'm taking in will go specifically towards my workout and recovery. Good results so far.

I've also been thinking that a short fast, say 15h ended with a workout is equivalent to longer fast, say 20h. Meanwhile long fasts, say 20h ended with a workout can be too much and are something to perhaps be avoided. Instead, a pre-workout meal would be best with amounts of food according to your goals.

I say this under the notion that with the drop in body temp, mental fogginess and so forth could bring a slight drop in performance, sub-par sessions and problems with "getting into it". Personally I've found it hard as hell to warm-up in a cold gym when you're already freezing cold from a long fast.

Just some of my thoughts and observations. So who's finally going to compile all these thoughts and make millions out of them?
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