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Old 04-28-2008, 08:53 AM   #11
Mike ODonnell
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Originally Posted by Derek Weaver View Post
Not sure the problem here with the liquefied foods?

My whole-Paleo-food loving self doesn't do shakes anymore, but the V-Diet has shown promising (read:astounding) results for many, and that's only one solid meal per week for 28 days.

Yet I digress... just curious as to the problem with shakes/liquefied foods (other than taste)
The V-diet is a low calorie diet...so at the end of the day, calories in/calorie out is still an important factor in weight loss. Whether the V-diet translate to real long term weight loss is another question...because it is not teaching one what real foods to eat. So like any diet...the inherent danger of rebounding back into old habits or bad food choices is a strong possibility. Anyways....whole food choices are always a better choice for a long term weight loss plan, not to mention a wide variety of minerals, nutrients, vitamins etc that supplements are not a great source for. Also real food (esp protein) take a long time to digest where something like Whey powder is just in and out of your system too quickly...and you want a nice stream of aminos if your goal is muscle retention during a low calorie phase. If you add in a whey+flaxseed drink a couple times a day along with real foods....I am sure it can work...as many things can. Could do drinks most of the day and eat a big meal at night (like a Warrior Diet/IF/V-Diet combination). Lots of possible combinations can work of course. Focusing on whole foods are just a better way for long term success in my opinion. (and taste good too!)
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Old 04-28-2008, 09:52 AM   #12
Ari Kestler
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Originally Posted by Derek Weaver View Post
Not sure the problem here with the liquefied foods?

My whole-Paleo-food loving self doesn't do shakes anymore, but the V-Diet has shown promising (read:astounding) results for many, and that's only one solid meal per week for 28 days.

Yet I digress... just curious as to the problem with shakes/liquefied foods (other than taste)
My understanding was if fat loss is a goal, you live and die by your insulin response, liquids are more easily digested (read: quicker) leading to a more profound insulin spike and fat storage....whole foods spend more time in your stomach and intestines, being slowly processed and broken down, leading to more stable insulin levels...
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Old 04-28-2008, 11:13 AM   #13
Mike ODonnell
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Originally Posted by Ari Kestler View Post
My understanding was if fat loss is a goal, you live and die by your insulin response, liquids are more easily digested (read: quicker) leading to a more profound insulin spike and fat storage....whole foods spend more time in your stomach and intestines, being slowly processed and broken down, leading to more stable insulin levels...
Yes and No...if your liquids are not loaded with sugar the accompanying insulin response is minimal. So types of liquids are important. Protein + Fat is good....loads of sugar is not. Building up insulin resistance through high sugar intake is a wonderful way to increase risks of all diseases (diabetes, cancers, heart diseases) and just increase the chances of even more fat gain once off the liquid diet. Hence the yo-yo effect 95% of chronic dieters go through. Fast and quick can be successful...if and only if a person knows how to adapt to a realistic lifestyle model after that...as slow and steady in the end always wins the long term race.
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Last edited by Mike ODonnell : 04-28-2008 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 04-28-2008, 04:38 PM   #14
Stanley Daniel
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Originally Posted by Mike ODonnell
You lost me once you went all zone language and formulas...as that is all too OCD and confusing for even the unfrozen caveman lawyer...

Remember fat burning is an all day calorie and hormonal event...as broken down in this simplistic pov post here

If you zone and it works...more power to you...otherwise....this works too:
Meat + Veggies + Fat (meals)
Meat + Carbs (pwo)
Eat whole foods only
Add in Fruit (classified as a carb) only either in AM or PWO (but keep as minimal as possible if weight loss is a goal....if you need it to keep from going into a hypoglycemic coma after a workout...then have some. As far as pwo windows and building muscle is concerned...don't worry about it, you will build plenty all day long)

The only right way is the one that gets results....and there is probably 10 different ways to do that....
Mike, thanks again for your input! I hopped onto your blog to see that this is what you've been emphasizing with some good points!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett Smith
I didn't like the goal of measuring and calculating macros only to ignore 2 of 3 macros in a food. If one was drinking milk, for example, which has significant contributions from all three macros, why ignore that? Also, when eating a mixed/prepared food (ie. a stew) that one didn't make from scratch, all the macros would need to be counted, as they are all there.

Right on Garrett! Haha, yes this has to be the most annoying part - It definitely can put one into OCD mode - I wouldn't want to drive towards that direction, but I would like to know how much is going in rather than "guessing..."

What I did notice is that I was having a difficult time (more based on time consumption and nailing that "anticipated gram amount") when trying to add up foods that had as you put, "significant" macronutrient contributions... Any better suggestions or reference links? I wrote back (today) on a previous post of looking at the Zone > Paleo transition... I've got most of the foods down... just tailoring it is what's needed... and as mentioned, it has to be enforced with discipline for a few weeks to see how it affects our individual body compositions....


Thanks again to everyone else who had responded to this thread... I'm glad I've been exposed to some interesting and realistic, yet manageable concepts!


Oh and one last question, ...what's the opinion of using "fat burners (yohimbine hcl) or carb shuttlers (i.e.r-alpha lipoic acid shunts glucose to muscles rather than adipose) or products with sesamin? It seems food is the best fat burner....
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Old 04-28-2008, 06:24 PM   #15
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Stanley,
When I did the Paleo/Zone, I did it on three meals a day. Less math that way. I'd have to guess that IFing the Zone would make the math that much easier. I couldn't imagine calculating for 5-6 feedings a day. Unless I really had to, I can't imagine ever doing the Zone again...but it was worth doing once for the lessons I learned.

The right amount of calories and carbs (less is usually more) is the best fat burner. Only protein and fats are essential. Yohimbine makes me irritable. I take R-ALA more for its longevity (insulin-sensitizing) effects than the fat-burning capability (if there is one). Never messed with sesamin.

Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants. I love that mantra.
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