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Old 05-12-2008, 09:36 AM   #21
Arden Cogar Jr.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Everett View Post
Arien -

I've only skimmed this thread, so forgive me if I'm completely off target. What I would add is simply that there is a big difference between a max effort deadlift and a max effort clean deadlift (not to mention snatch DL). With the former, anything goes - leading with the hips, rounded back, whatever - essentially all that matters is getting the bar up. With a deadlift used specifically for weightlifting, positioning is critical, and loads that exceed your ability to maintain correct pulling posture (as defined for the clean and snatch, not DL) are defeating the purpose. It's surprisingly common to find people with 400+ lb deadlifts who can even clean 200 lbs, and often who can't even maintain back extension during the pull.
Greg,
What does "who can't maintain back extension during the pull." I'm not quite grasping that concept. Do you mean that a 400+ dler can clean 200 while using the "things" (leading with the hips, rounded back) you mention above? When I think of "maintain back extension", I think of shoulders forward, back arched, lats tight, triceps tight (crushing the chip between arms and lats), hips and shoulders rising at the same time with shoulders in front of the bar, and pulling from the heels until in the scoop position. Am I close?

All the best,
Arden
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Old 05-12-2008, 05:36 PM   #22
Dave Van Skike
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Originally Posted by Yoon Sohn View Post
I've had good experience incorporating clean/snatch deadlifts, but I've only ever gone up to ~110% of max clean/snatch. Great confidence builder if the 1st pulls tend to feel heavy.

You may have seen this video of Kendrick Farris snatch deadlifting 230kg for 5 which I think is about 150% of his best snatch. So I'd say there's definitely merit in going heavy, depending on the individual of course.

On the subject of relative numbers, you will all laugh at me, but the most I've ever pulled from the floor (about 2 years into strength/Oly training) is 120kg. My max clean is 110, clean and jerk is 108, front squat is 117.5. I haven't maxed out the back squat recently, but that has always been pretty close to my front squat. Could I benefit from a better strength base? Most definitely. I've spent a bit too much time thinking about technique/efficiency and not nearly enough on the strength component!

btw, here's another pretty extensive discussion of deadlifting as it applies to Olympic lifting:
http://goheavy.com/forums/olympic/index.cgi/read/64281

Nice link.

I have never had luck with my dead translating to any other bar movement...Nor have my power cleans translated to my dead ala Bill Starr.

Squats, mediumish bar placement, athletic stance (Rippatoe style) seem to translate to everyhting. If my back squat is moving up, so is my front squat and deadlift, so is are my RDL and hi pulls.

I am no olympic lifter and when I do variants it's always a power versions or a hi pulls, done really light (185-225) for explosion. These translate directly to weird stuff like keg loading, atlas stones and tire which are done with weights well in excess of what I can clean.

The thing about the deadlift..(I've been lifting and watching some good deadlifters) is that it requires lots of patience..I think to do it well, you have to be able to grind through the sticking points. I know those that espouse the dip and rip pull but I think it's more about individual morphology than anyhting else. most of us humans need to grind our deads. It sure seem that if you get a strong Oly lifter deadlifting 500 for a slow grindy triple, that's not going to help.

OTOH there's K. (My Way) Ferris doing nice smooth pulls in a snatch grip in that same neighborhood....I love watching that guy.
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