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Old 06-18-2008, 08:56 PM   #1
Liam Dougherty Springer
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 338
Default Increased anxiety?

Recently I have been experiencing incresed nervouse energy which can easily express it self in the form of over thinking, or worrying. The dramatic increase seams to have come along with really falling into a hard IF schedule.

The thing is I have been getting tremendouse results in aver all energy levels body composition and most important athletic performance. I also really felt my body working efficiantly with my food in regards to protein synthesis and stored energy use and replenishment.

I spoke with my head shrink about the anxiety and its possible corralation to the diet change.

He really did not know what to think about the practice of IF. He was impressed and cautiouse immediatly expressing the feeling that it went against what little medical understanding he had of proper nutrition.
He said.

"Well it makes scense that you are somewhat uncomfortable when in periods of being underfed your body is lacking for food. However I think that increased energy and mental activity are good symptoms in the grand scheme of things. I would be more worried about apathy and a lathargic state broiught on by a diet."

I really thought this was a cool interaction with a objective medical professsional from a psychiatric feild of research. While he was sure that other more relevntly educated professionals had shared that this IF was a bad idea for humans, he reffered to his own expereincial knowledge base and judged simply by the symptoms which he could understand.

I guess he is right on I am glad I have increased energy and mental activity. Only there can be to much of a good thing.

Is a stressed disposition a symptom of a poorly implemented IF program in someway?

I backed of and went back to strait Paleo/zone evenly spaced eating times and the axiety has subsided.

I would like to get back to IF however. Perhaps I need to adjust the fast and eating windows? Maybe I was training to hard for the amount of fasting?

Any responses of simalr experiences or possible causes or solutions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanx all
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Old 06-19-2008, 07:38 AM   #2
Paul McKirdy
Join Date: Jun 2008
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I am actually noticing this same thing. I just program myself to reign in a bit, the classic "as You think, so shall You be".

My solution: conscious meditation to keep from spinning off down rabit holes. Including rewiring the feeling of hunger and the stomach moving about during the day to normal activity. I.e. as long as energy levels are high then stomach doesn't in fact need anyting in it. Very gross correlation I know, but it has seemed to be a good entry level thought-process to help curb anxiety thought trails.

I have noticed irritation levels changing more rapidly too, but then when I immediately stop to think about how I feel, I notice I am full of energy to the point where it feels like I'm coiled ready to spring. Then I do some deep breathing and ratchet down a few again.

There aren't words to describe how highly I recommend this book:
http://arfalpha.com/ScienceOfBreath/ScienceOfBreath.pdf WFS

Some of it is rather out there, but the breathing exercises are no joke. Changed my life, but I could go on all day here so I will stop for now.
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Old 06-19-2008, 08:08 AM   #3
Garrett Smith
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As has been said before, make IF work for you, don't you work for IF.

Try gradually increasing your feeding windows. Remember that IF is intermittent, which means some days you may not fast at all. I like one long fast a week, otherwise I pretty much do 15 hour fasts (lunch and dinner).

Paul's suggestion is great as well. It could simply be anxiety from being used to eating all the time (when now you aren't).
Garrett Smith NMD CSCS BS, aka "Dr. G"
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Old 06-19-2008, 09:22 AM   #4
Mike ODonnell
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Originally Posted by Liam Dougherty Springer View Post
with really falling into a hard IF schedule.
You'll have to be more detailed than "I do IF".....that doesn't tell me much. There are 100 different ways you could be doing it....and yes 95 of those ways could be wrong for your body mentally and physically. IF is not a diet.....it's a tool you figure out how to use. Just because the hammer didn't help to wash your windows doesn't mean it doesn't have a good use for something. (you get the idea)

Anxiety is not good....then again I don't know your lifestyle...your stress levels....do you worry about things at work....do you try and do too much for work all day....are you not finding down time to relax....are you obsessing over things you can't control....have you had issues in the past with depression....have you had issues with obsessing over what you eat in the past....are you getting plenty of sleep.....are you wired on coffee all day? So many questions that health is a bigger part of. Go for a 2 hour walk in nature and then tell me if you are still have anxiety attacks....that and things may start to become more clear to you on what you need and don't need in your life.

I've had little anxiety attacks but it is usually when I am pushing my mind and body too hard...with trying to get too much done...worrying about something that has to do with work and money...stressing out about stuff that really doesn't matter....staying up late and usually not getting any release with exercise or just a break. From there it will take me a day to shut off the computer and go do nothing.....the body needs to reset itself. IF may have been a factor because it gave me too much mental focus during a time I tried to do way too much. My brain shorted out eventually. Thinking too much is not the goal....enjoying life is. Just to be able to sit back and let the mind be free is how you don't get anxiety....letting the ego side take over and give it the need to always do stuff is going to wear anyone down. For me I already enjoy being able to sit still and do nothing....for someone that can't sit still giving them more mental focus is like giving a race car to a teenager....not a good idea and will only lead to a crash. Fasting long ago was easier when people didn't get so worried about stuff and had plenty of down time.....in today's world of non-stop stimulation/cell phones/traffic/stress from work/deadlines/pressure to be the best you can be/gyms with electronic equipment and TVs all over the place/24hr bad news channels always giving you something to worry about......I think IF is just going to amplify any problems we already have that we are not addressing....IF just blows it up to a new level as now our brain gets more active but it's still focused on the wrong things. There's a deeper problem at heart that needs to be focused on.

In the end....if eating all day works better for you emotionally then you are probably best sticking with it. If you want to try IF again you have to start slowly and do it once a week. See how your body reacts. Most people have problems because they try and do too much thinking more is better....when it never is. There is no one right way....but there are plenty of wrong ways.
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Last edited by Mike ODonnell; 06-19-2008 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 06-19-2008, 01:45 PM   #5
Mike ODonnell
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Originally Posted by Liam Dougherty Springer View Post
"Well it makes scense that you are somewhat uncomfortable when in periods of being underfed your body is lacking for food. However I think that increased energy and mental activity are good symptoms in the grand scheme of things."

had shared that this IF was a bad idea for humans
Giving this more thought here's what I came up with:

- daily routine fasting is not something 10,000 BC man did every day....he fasted when he had no food and he ate when he had it....so hence...the whole "intermittent" part
- You autonomic nervous controls your heart, lungs, glands, stomach, blood vessels and other organs. It's compromised of the SNS (fight or flight) and PNS (rest and digest)
- Waking up you are in a SNS response (fiight or flight)...why? Because your body has to elevate cortisol to wake your ass up and it has to motivate you to go hunt for food. It also increases your mental alertness because it wants you to find food and be a smart hunter...as a dumb one may starve to death.
- Fasting (IF) Daily will just keep the SNS going...hence why there may be an additional metabolism spike and fat burn
- Our daily stressors and lifestyles are not what they were 10,000 years ago. Paleo man didn't wake up and worry about the monthly mortgage, paying off credit cards, world politics, what the stock market was doing or the report that has to be on Grog's desk by Friday.
- If you are already stressed and prone to anxiety, then turning up the SNS and keeping it going is going to amplify your underlying issues
- You still need to find ways to destress in life....as you don't just turn up the radio when you hear something going wrong with the car do you? (well maybe some people do...but it's not going to hide the issue that could come back to do damage later)
- Eating a large meal in the morning generates PNS responses therefore taking you more out of SNS and calming down your alertness

Either way...IF is meant to be....ready....Intermittent. So do it 2x a week....3x a week....1x a week....but not every day as that will not be a good way to start. That and listen to how your body responds.....as the level at which you stress out on things is completely different from the level I stress out about things....so I may be able to do it 5x a week.....but you may find it only works for you 2-3x a week. Believe me, if I find my plan isn't working for me or I am going through more stressful times, then IF is put on hold. The real power comes from knowing when and how to use it....and when to take a break from it.

Along that line it can also be important to generate a large PNS response towards night so you can fall asleep and recharge as part of the natural cycle of SNS during the day and PNS at night. If your sleep is compromised then so will your recovery ability to handle SNS the next day. So big meals at night...go to bed feeling satisfied and stress free....no news before bed.

Also work on the other lifestyle issues and stimulants that are causing excessive stress in your life and remove or just detach from them. Make your life more peaceful and enjoyable....don't just turn up the car radio. (which is a main reason people turn to alcohol and drugs, to basically shut off the thinking part of the mind that is creating all the fear, self-doubt, worry, etc..., but that wears off and then the anxiety comes back....so hence people become addicted to the drugs/alcohol as it never makes the underlying issue be confronted and dealt with)
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Last edited by Mike ODonnell; 06-19-2008 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 06-19-2008, 07:31 PM   #6
Liam Dougherty Springer
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Thanx all this is what I love about Performance menu. Great minds comming together without the scialnonscence just kepping it real.

I am going to begin IF more slowly this time. I was very happy with the way I felt for the most part and, to be honest with myself, in just the few days I went back to all day eatting I missed the boost IF brought about. I think the suggestions or stopping to take a moment and appriciate all the great things that I find in my life today is solid.

IF probrably did allow for me to spiral out a bit more efficiantly however I realize the spiraling movement was of my own creation.

I deffinatly hold the belief that IF is a correct practice for humens. Both Dr. Cordain and Sears had great ideas and put together a solid practice however intuition tells me our ancesters did not eat at evenly spaced intervals or measure their food.

I find I work best in a system of organized spiratic eating paterns, and listening to what my body is asking for.

Thanks again for the input and incouragement
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