Home   |   Contact   |   Help

Get Our Newsletter
Sign up for our free newsletter to get training tips and stay up to date on Catalyst Athletics, and get a FREE issue of the Performance Menu journal.

Go Back   Catalyst Athletics Forums > Training > Fitness, Strength & CrossFit

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-11-2008, 06:22 AM   #1
Peter Dell'Orto
Member
 
Peter Dell'Orto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 122
Default Gymnastics practice and the CNS

I've been including more gynmastics practice - handstands, progessing towards a front lever (very slowly) mostly - in my workouts. Planks, too, but I'm not sure those are "gymnastics." Nothing too taxing, usually just aiming for 60 seconds of quality work after I do my ME lifting, metcon, or full-body mixed workout.

What I'm curious about is how demanding this is on the CNS? It doesn't seem to be especially taxing on my body, but how should I regard a 60 second consecutive handstand hold in terms of my CNS? Is it making a low demand (it's static, it's relatively short. It can be somewhat maximal - holding handstands is hard for me with my weak overhead pressing and relatively high weight - but it's not like I'm DLing 1x5x5RM.

Is the demand here basically CNS, muscular, or what? Should I consider this work when I schedule my workouts or recovery, or is this more like technique work?

Thanks. Sorry for the vagueness of the question...I'm just wondering what this practice is taking from me. I'm pretty sure it's making me stronger and helping my balance, but what am I expending to get that?
__________________
Peter V. Dell'Orto
My workout log
Peter Dell'Orto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2008, 08:11 AM   #2
Ari Kestler
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 156
Default

Can't really comment, but most recommend doing isometric work BEFORE the rest of your workout...just fyi
Ari Kestler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2008, 08:17 AM   #3
Garrett Smith
Senior Member
 
Garrett Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 4,368
Default

You may find something of value in here: http://www.t-nation.com/article/most...best_exercises

I believe that gymnastics work, particularly the strength holds, are not terribly CNS-taxing, hence why gymnasts can train 3 hours a day, every day, doing the same or similar movements much of the time.

They are muscularly taxing. This recovers faster than the CNS. So, with less taxing and faster recovery, more training can be done.
__________________
Garrett Smith NMD CSCS BS, aka "Dr. G"
RepairRecoverRestore.com - Blood, Saliva, and Stool Testing
My radio show - The Path to Strength and Health
Garrett Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2008, 09:52 AM   #4
Steven Low
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,091
Default

I structure workouts like this to great success:

1. Skill work = non-CNS taxing stuff... includes any skill work on any of the events EXCEPT holds on rings. Handstands, L-sits/V-sits, shoulderstands, etc. also fall into this category.

2. explosive/power/eccentrics/isometric holds =

Power = oly lifts, any of the DE stuff from westside, plyo if you're doing it (but generally don't have any leg work outside of plyo after this..), etc.

Eccentrics like one arm chin negatives, slow negatives through cross position, etc.

Any of the taxing rings holds falling the isometrics category (specifically back lever, iron cross, front lever, planche, maltese, inverted cross and any significantly taxing transition between these moves).

3. Strength = dynamic movements such as DL, squats (DL goes last if you have other leg/full body exercises), and any other upper body work that requires movement. For example, cross pullouts, planche progression pushups, front lever pullups, weighted pullups/dips, muscle ups, etc.

4. general conditioning = generally falls under metcon or circuit type training.

5. Flexibility = static work


2-3 can be combined some of the time like if you're doing routines as your strength work.

If you want a sample if I'm not too busy I probably can help you out... although my programming attempts generally end up pretty bad since I don't know your level of strength and conditioning.. and tend to overestimate over the Internet, heh.
__________________
Posts NOT intended as professional medical, training or nutrition advice.
Site // Bodyweight Strength Training Article // Overcoming Gravity Bodyweight Book

Last edited by Steven Low : 07-11-2008 at 09:58 AM.
Steven Low is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2008, 04:40 PM   #5
Peter Dell'Orto
Member
 
Peter Dell'Orto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 122
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett Smith View Post
You may find something of value in here: http://www.t-nation.com/article/most...best_exercises
Actually, it's reading that article that prompted this question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
I structure workouts like this to great success:
Thanks Steven, that's useful.

I don't need programming help yet. I think I can work that out myself given a good structure to work around.

I've been doing my gymnastics work afterwards right now, because it's fairly taxing and because I didn't want it to impact my ME work. Plus I tend to want to "get it over with" and get onto my explosive work. So my workout structure has been more like:

1) Mobility warmups
2) Explosive training (including jumping)
3) ME strength work
4) Assistance strength work
5) Isometric/Gymnastic work
6) Metcon
7) Static Stretching

If I'm also training MMA that day, it becomes #6 and I drop metcon.

That structure might not be ideal, but it does have the upside that by time I reach #5 I'm ready for some static holds. My real concern was that I wasn't really factoring in how draining gymnastics training was on my CNS. Sounds like it's not, so I can work up to longer or harder holds as best I can and not worry.

Thanks guys.
__________________
Peter V. Dell'Orto
My workout log
Peter Dell'Orto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2008, 05:56 PM   #6
Steven Low
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,091
Default

Well, if you're doing static stuff like front lever/planche/cross I would suggest doing it right after the explosive worked or tied in with the strength work. Extremely taxing on the body done right as these are also full body movements.

Otherwise, it's up to you though. As for the skill stuff yeah you can do that as much as you want. Handstands get a bit iffy once you want to shoot for like 2-5+ minutes though... maybe better with conditioning there.
__________________
Posts NOT intended as professional medical, training or nutrition advice.
Site // Bodyweight Strength Training Article // Overcoming Gravity Bodyweight Book
Steven Low is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2008, 10:36 AM   #7
Peter Dell'Orto
Member
 
Peter Dell'Orto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 122
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
Well, if you're doing static stuff like front lever/planche/cross I would suggest doing it right after the explosive worked or tied in with the strength work. Extremely taxing on the body done right as these are also full body movements.
I'm really at the beginner's level, so I don't think what I'm doing is as taxing. I'm doing planks, L-pullup static holds, handstand holds, etc. and then slowly increasing my ability. Once I hit 60s, I try to make the static position a little harder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
Otherwise, it's up to you though. As for the skill stuff yeah you can do that as much as you want. Handstands get a bit iffy once you want to shoot for like 2-5+ minutes though... maybe better with conditioning there.
Yeah, I'm so far from this it's not funny. Either my wrists, or my arms, or my head gives out around the 30s mark on handstands, with my feet on the wall. It's a test right now. I found out I was just about the only person in my gym incapable of either an free-standing triangle headstand (head and two hands down), or a HSPU, so I'm trying to work on the static portion first.

So my answer is that it's taxing on my musculature, not my CNS, and I need to program it accordingly. That helps a lot. Thanks very much guys!
__________________
Peter V. Dell'Orto
My workout log
Peter Dell'Orto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2008, 11:05 AM   #8
Steven Low
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,091
Default

I personally think planks are a waste of time as they can more or less be incorporated into other training such as pseudo planche pushups or something. Maybe you're not at that point yet though.

Once you get stronger, you'll find that a lot of basic exercises become useless and training actually simplifies as you work towards harder stuff because it taxes everything.

Glad I could help though.. if you got any other Qs feel free.
__________________
Posts NOT intended as professional medical, training or nutrition advice.
Site // Bodyweight Strength Training Article // Overcoming Gravity Bodyweight Book
Steven Low is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2008, 06:12 PM   #9
Peter Dell'Orto
Member
 
Peter Dell'Orto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 122
Default

I'm just not there yet.

Planks are still challenging to me in terms of endurance, especially because I stick them at the end of a workout. If I do them first, they're not so hard.

But the rest - cross, planche, levers - yeah, I'm just not there. I've gotten better grip strength and my pulling strength is good, but my balance is awful and my pushing strength is weak and somewhat injury-impaired. That makes planches and handstands something I need to work to.
__________________
Peter V. Dell'Orto
My workout log
Peter Dell'Orto is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:26 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Subscribe to our Newsletter


Receive emails with training tips, news updates, events info, sale notifications and more.
ASK GREG

Submit your question to be answered by Greg Everett in the Performance Menu or on the website

Submit Your Question
WEIGHTLIFTING TEAM

Catalyst Athletics is a USA Weightlifting team of competitive Olympic-style weightlifters with multiple national team medals.

Read More
Olympic Weightlifting Book
Catalyst Athletics
Contact Us
About
Help
Newsletter
Products & Services
Gym
Store
Seminars
Weightlifting Team
Performance Menu
Magazine Home
Subscriber Login
Issues
Articles
Workouts
About the Program
Workout Archives
Exercise Demos
Text Only
Instructional Content
Exercise Demos
Video Gallery
Free Articles
Free Recipes
Resources
Recommended Books & DVDs
Olympic Weightlifting Guide
Discussion Forum
Weight Conversion Calculator