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Old 07-30-2008, 04:27 PM   #31
Liam Dougherty Springer
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Originally Posted by Craig Loizides View Post
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nutritiondata.com has grapes and berries at roughly 50% glucose/50% fructose along with most fruits and vegetables (apples and pears are only bout 35%). It seems that only starchy fruits and vegetables have more glucose : carrots 60%, bananas 65%, sweet potato 100%. I'd be curious to see other numbers if you have them.
Actually thanx I have been using NUtritionData for quite some time don't know how I missed its glucose/fructose numbers I have been wanting a source for that for quite some time. I got the grapes ans berries thing from a couple of articles and affiliated references by Robb Wolf in the PM. The bannana (65/35) info is quite usefull I thought it may be high in glucose ginin it is high in the Glycimic Index.

I think the reason berries were suggested is exactly what you showed about pears and apples 35/65 and I wonder about other tree fruits like peaches, oranges and plums. I am going to NutData right now. Anyway 35/65 G/F as compared to 50/50 is actualy a very significant difference as far as the amount of glucose. Think of how much less fructose will be consumed at 50/50 to make up an equal amount of glucose from 35/65 almost half the amount.

Corn syrup, cane, and table sugar (sucrose) is 50/50 maybe different molecularly though. Don't know how that plays into the whole picture.

Steven?
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Old 07-30-2008, 06:14 PM   #32
Steven Low
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Steven, I've been wondering about this. I thought the liver had about 100g stored glycogen and the body had a total of 2000-2500 calories stored. Am I wrong here? Either way why does a 400m sprinter run out at 250m and a marathoner at 20 miles?
I think you're right.

There's total body glycogen depletion (well, enough to keep the brain operating but mass fatigue) at ~20-22 or so miles in marathon. Well, ~100kcal per mile so total body glycogen is used to run = total depletion.

Well, we gotta realize that it's not static; if the body needs fuel in a certain area the hormones given off (catecholamines, glucocorticoids, steroids, etc.) are going to tell adipose tissue and liver and probably other muscles to give up energy (in the form of fat/glucose and if necessary amino acids) to where the body needs it (e.g. the muscles doing the work).

But in any case, local muscular depletion of glycogen is the reason why 400m runners die at 250-300m. At high enough intensity in the muscles being used in running, the rate of glycogen consumption far exceeds the body's ability to pump glucose into the blood to send to the muscles working. Thus, you hit that hump when you run out.

In marathon, the runners are running at a sustainable pace where body can provide enough glucose into bloodstream & uptake is fast enough to keep the running muscles in equilibrium. But then you hit that wall when there's very little and gotta run on fat. Which is why you need to be fat adapted at least somewhat. Same with Tour de France -- first 2 days are hard as hell and then the 3 day it gets easier.. because your body is adapting to fat as a major source of fuel.


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If it's immediately before a workout and easily digestible it can usually be helpful (for endurance activities anyway). You can try experimenting with 8-16 ounces of gatorade 5-10 minutes before a workout. A glucose based drink might be even better than gatorade.
Yep. Has to be very close to workout; if not starting during. If it's like 30 minutes you get a nice insulin spike which messes with energy levels though.
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Last edited by Steven Low : 07-30-2008 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 07-31-2008, 11:25 AM   #33
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Trygve,

Get fat-adapted first. Go low carb paleo, tons of green veggies, LOTS of clean fats (from grass-fed meat, grass-fed butter, pastured eggs, olive oil, nuts, avocados), and adequate levels of protein (for you this means 1 g/lb of lean body mass). Once you become fat-adapted (you'll know because your energy will increase dramatically and you'll crave fat instead of carbs when you get hungry) your body will use fat for all activities other than glycogen-dependent training like an actual soccer game, for instance. With this is mind you'll want to implement small carb-ups (like including moderate levels of carbs in meals preceding a game or intense practice. During these times the best carbs you can take in are paleo-starches like sweet potatoes, yams, carrots, butternut squash, pumpkin, beets, parsnips, etc. and small amounts of fruit.

You DON'T want to eat huge meals consisting of solely carbs once your fat-adapted. The key is to eat paleo/low-carb most of the time and eat paleo plus more carbs around events requiring glycogen.

I don't know your specific schedule, so I can't recommend anything for IF, but If you really want me to get specific you can drop me a PM or e-mail me at gc_battaglia@neumann.edu

Hope this helps
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Old 07-31-2008, 12:00 PM   #34
Trygve Lunde
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i pm`ed you


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Originally Posted by Greg Battaglia View Post
Trygve,

Get fat-adapted first. Go low carb paleo, tons of green veggies, LOTS of clean fats (from grass-fed meat, grass-fed butter, pastured eggs, olive oil, nuts, avocados), and adequate levels of protein (for you this means 1 g/lb of lean body mass). Once you become fat-adapted (you'll know because your energy will increase dramatically and you'll crave fat instead of carbs when you get hungry) your body will use fat for all activities other than glycogen-dependent training like an actual soccer game, for instance. With this is mind you'll want to implement small carb-ups (like including moderate levels of carbs in meals preceding a game or intense practice. During these times the best carbs you can take in are paleo-starches like sweet potatoes, yams, carrots, butternut squash, pumpkin, beets, parsnips, etc. and small amounts of fruit.

You DON'T want to eat huge meals consisting of solely carbs once your fat-adapted. The key is to eat paleo/low-carb most of the time and eat paleo plus more carbs around events requiring glycogen.

I don't know your specific schedule, so I can't recommend anything for IF, but If you really want me to get specific you can drop me a PM or e-mail me at gc_battaglia@neumann.edu

Hope this helps
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