Home   |   Contact   |   Help

Get Our Newsletter
Sign up for our free newsletter to get training tips and stay up to date on Catalyst Athletics, and get a FREE issue of the Performance Menu journal.

Go Back   Catalyst Athletics Forums > Training > Olympic Weightlifting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-08-2008, 02:59 PM   #1
Matt Thomas
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 61
Default Box Squats?

I started to follow the front page WOD here a couple of weeks ago and so far I'm lovin it. Quick question though. I like alot of what Louie Simmons has to say, especially on the box squat and the reasoning behind it. Would it be okay to replace back squats with box squats whenever they are prescribed? It seems like the benefits of the box squat would transfer well into the other things worked in the WOD. Just currious if anyone more knowledgable than me had any good reasons why not to do this. Thank you for your time.
Matt Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2008, 05:28 PM   #2
Jesse Woody
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 127
Default

Well, the squats as used in the WOD are there to help strengthen the recovery of the clean and snatch, so they have a pretty specific purpose. Box-squats, if done correctly, are more for strengthening the hamstring/glute and working starting strength, which could definitely have some carry-over, but would probably help more on your first pull and your deadlifts, not necessarily the squat that you'd be hitting during the classic lifts.

If perhaps hamstring and glute strength, as well as "coming out of the hole" especially when you lose momentum, is your main weakness, they could be of use, and perhaps they differ enough technically from the high-bar Olympic squat that they wouldn't have too much negative carry-over. I don't know about using them instead of squats, but maybe throwing them in as technique work, like the tall snatch/clean etc., and using speed sets to specifically work the explosiveness of those muscles might be of use...but then you're getting into perhaps making everything more complicated than it has to be.

Any other thoughts from the more-knowledgeable around here? I got some great gains in my low-bar squats doing a WSB approach to the Crossfit Total for the month and a half before switching to the WOD here, and perhaps that (along with the good-mornings, Dimmel Deadlifts, SLDL's, Glute-Ham raises) helped form a good base of strength for the improvements in my pulls. One thing I know for sure, "building the lifts" from different movements tends to lead to workouts that are entirely too long for me, so I'm welcoming the simplicity of forgoing so much variety But maybe that's just me!
Jesse Woody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2008, 05:41 PM   #3
Matt Thomas
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 61
Default

Yeah, more hamstring strength and strength out of the hole were why I thought they might be a good idea. There are a lot of front squats programmed into the WOD as well. Perhaps that could be enough to work on the clean recovery aspect of squatting and both of these lifts could exist in the same program?
Matt Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2008, 07:52 PM   #4
Greg Everett
Administrator
 
Greg Everett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,738
Default

You can play with them, but I wouldn't replace back squats wholesale with them. If you're concerned about strength out of the bottom position with no momentum, pause at the bottom of your squats in one session a week.

The box squat is way too dissimilar to the clean/fs to really help - same reason I don't like the low-bar BS for oly lifters. You're basically strengthening something you're not going to be using, so what's the point. If you need more PC work, DLs and pulls are a lot more productive.
__________________
Olympic Weightlifting: A Complete Guide for Athletes & Coaches

"Without a doubt the best book on the market about Olympic-style weightlifting." - Mike Burgener, USAW Senior International Coach

American Weightlifting: The Documentary
Catalyst Athletics
Performance Menu Journal
Greg Everett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 11:26 AM   #5
Dave Van Skike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,738
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Woody View Post
Box-squats, if done correctly, are more for strengthening the hamstring/glute and working starting strength, which could definitely have some carry-over, but would probably help more on your first pull and your deadlifts, not necessarily the squat that you'd be hitting during the classic lifts.
what he said....


If you are a ultra close stance squatter (high bar Oly style) you might find wide stance to a low box helps strengthen your hips and hams but It won't replace regular back squats. just like pulling sumo might help you conventional deadlift...or it might be a waste of time....

the only athletes I know that have essentially replaced back squats with box squats are:

1) Pl lifters who squat in double ply gear

2) field athletes who don't compete in stregnth sports but who do a LOT of single leg work.


3) strongman and heavy athletics competitors who do a ton of front squatting.......

among all of those groups, I'll bet 90% of the folks in them would still benefit from some amount of back squatting from time to time, whether it be high rep, low reps, speed squats or even ultra wide stance PL squats...
__________________
Practical Strength
Dave Van Skike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 02:07 PM   #6
Arden Cogar Jr.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 694
Default

I tend to box squat if I'm feeling "achy in the knee" if that makes any sense? I've always felt that box squatting really gets you to focus on getting your shins perpedicular to floor, which, for me, took a lot of stress off my knees.

Others have commented very well on this.

All the best,
Arden
Arden Cogar Jr. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 08:26 PM   #7
Matt Thomas
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 61
Thumbs up

Thanks for all the feedback guys. Really appreciate it.
Matt Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 10:20 PM   #8
David Tieu
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 95
Default

am i right in assuming that you guys are discussing low bar, pl style box squats? if so what do people think about oly style box squats?
David Tieu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2008, 12:42 PM   #9
Greg Everett
Administrator
 
Greg Everett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,738
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Tieu View Post
am i right in assuming that you guys are discussing low bar, pl style box squats? if so what do people think about oly style box squats?
Not necessarily low-bar, but yes, hip-centric PL-style squat. If you're doing an oly squat, I see no need to use a box - if you want to work from a dead stop, just do pause squats. For most people, fitting a box in there is impossible anyway (it would have to be about the size of a rubik's cube).
__________________
Olympic Weightlifting: A Complete Guide for Athletes & Coaches

"Without a doubt the best book on the market about Olympic-style weightlifting." - Mike Burgener, USAW Senior International Coach

American Weightlifting: The Documentary
Catalyst Athletics
Performance Menu Journal
Greg Everett is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:11 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Subscribe to our Newsletter


Receive emails with training tips, news updates, events info, sale notifications and more.
ASK GREG

Submit your question to be answered by Greg Everett in the Performance Menu or on the website

Submit Your Question
WEIGHTLIFTING TEAM

Catalyst Athletics is a USA Weightlifting team of competitive Olympic-style weightlifters with multiple national team medals.

Read More
Olympic Weightlifting Book
Catalyst Athletics
Contact Us
About
Help
Newsletter
Products & Services
Gym
Store
Seminars
Weightlifting Team
Performance Menu
Magazine Home
Subscriber Login
Issues
Articles
Workouts
About the Program
Workout Archives
Exercise Demos
Text Only
Instructional Content
Exercise Demos
Video Gallery
Free Articles
Free Recipes
Resources
Recommended Books & DVDs
Olympic Weightlifting Guide
Discussion Forum
Weight Conversion Calculator