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Old 10-04-2008, 09:08 AM   #1
Chris H Laing
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Default ME Black Box with gymnastics?

I'm currently on SS and will do that for a couple months til I get beastly strong . Once I'm done with SS I would like to move to a ME BB template (CF, ME, CF, rest) but would like to have gymnastic movements in addition to the barbell moves on ME days.

So I have two questions:
1. Could I do a gymnastics movement or hold and a barbell lift in the same ME day? For example: Front Lever and Deadlift. Could I do my front lever work, and then go to the deadlift effort in the same day? Or should it be broken up like CF, front lever ME, CF, rest, CF, deadlift ME, Cf...etc.

and...
2. How would I incorporate max effort with gymnastic movements. The things I would like to work towards with the gymnastics ME days are HSPU, front/back lever, and possibly iron cross and planche. For the HSPU, I would start with negatives until I got one, but how would I make this a max effort attempt. Add weight? More reps? I have been thinking long and hard and cannot figure out how to make a HSPU ME day have the same effect as a squat ME day.

And for the other movements, which are holds, how would I do max effort for those? Three or five sets of holding it as long as I can?

Sorry for the long post but I have been trying for weeks to figure this out, and I have been unsuccessful . So, please, lemme know how this can be done, especially anyone who has done something like this before, or any gymnastics coaches who use ME for the gymnastics movements.
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Old 10-04-2008, 10:20 AM   #2
Steven Low
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Sooooooooo easy to do.

Read this.. might help.
http://www.powerathletesmag.com/wfor...php?f=1&t=1037

The links therein (of the above link) have some programming templates for CFers. HOWEVER, most of the time I overestimated people's conditioning level so... most of them are probably too intense.

Quote:
Here is another good example of how to do this (page 46 is main post but read the others for a good background):
http://www.board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=24494

Here is another more recent variation with two more routine constructions:http://www.board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=26612
If you have any further questions then feel free to ask. It's not very hard to do.... the main thing you need to know after you have your goals is what progressions to use.

I assume since you wanna do MEBB that you want to keep a bunch of the conditioning and work on strength as well. This is fairly simple. Do a 3/1/2/1 (1 = rest days) or 5/2 or something. Each day work maybe 1 or possibly 2 strength movements for each of pressing, pulling and posterior chain. Then add in a short metcon afterwards. Easy as pie.


Umm, yeah. For HSPUs progressions:

1. I'd work up to about 5-8 reps or so (this is of course on PARALLETTES so you're doing full ROM). If you wanna keep getting stronger use a weight vest (kinda hard though) or start doing assisted one arm HSPUs or something like that.

2. The other alternative is to work on hollow back presses (although he cheats a bit by resting on elbows/elbow lever) which are GREAT for overall pressing strength. Pretty much a prerequisite to working higher level pressing movements on rings especially.

3. Weighted dips kinda carry over a little as does planche work if you wanted to add these as supplementals.
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Last edited by Steven Low : 10-04-2008 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 10-04-2008, 05:09 PM   #3
Chris H Laing
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Thanks for the info Steven. This helps a lot. Much appreciated.
But I do have another question. When doing max effort work for lets say the back lever, should I do max holds til I reach 60 seconds? Or maybe reps of half my max hold time til I reach 60 seconds? What about just 3 or 5 reps of holding it as long as possible? This is the part that has really been confusing me, and if you have any insight I'd greatly appreciate it.

Also, I am doing MEBB as a sort of ease back into full-on crossfit because that is what I really want to do. I'm on SS right now, and when I start to stall on that I'll be switching to MEBB, and after a while on that switching back to the mainpage WOD, with extra gymnastic skills training, because gymnastics is awesome.

Eventually (and I'm talking about years from now) I would like to be able to perform a solid straddle planche, full front and back lever and a freestanding HSPU. Maybe an iron cross, but I doubt I could dedicate the time to train specifically for it.

So the MEBB is pretty much a way to ease myself back into crossfitting and gymnastic training.

P.S. you should come back to the CF forums
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Old 10-04-2008, 05:36 PM   #4
Steven Low
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris H Laing View Post
Thanks for the info Steven. This helps a lot. Much appreciated.
But I do have another question. When doing max effort work for lets say the back lever, should I do max holds til I reach 60 seconds? Or maybe reps of half my max hold time til I reach 60 seconds? What about just 3 or 5 reps of holding it as long as possible? This is the part that has really been confusing me, and if you have any insight I'd greatly appreciate it.
If you've reach Coach Sommer's planche and front lever article, the thing he doesn't mention is that you're supposed to do each hold at 1/2 of your maximum hold. So if your max is 20s you should do 6x10s holds to hit the 60s total. Also, if you're working both planche and front lever you can alternate them to save time (do each every 90-180s or so).

Doing max holds will burn out out pretty fast. But obviously you should do them occasionally maybe once a week just to find out your new max.

Well, there's some other methods, but you can try this one out and see how well it works for you.

Quote:
Also, I am doing MEBB as a sort of ease back into full-on crossfit because that is what I really want to do. I'm on SS right now, and when I start to stall on that I'll be switching to MEBB, and after a while on that switching back to the mainpage WOD, with extra gymnastic skills training, because gymnastics is awesome.

Eventually (and I'm talking about years from now) I would like to be able to perform a solid straddle planche, full front and back lever and a freestanding HSPU. Maybe an iron cross, but I doubt I could dedicate the time to train specifically for it.

So the MEBB is pretty much a way to ease myself back into crossfitting and gymnastic training.
Well, you can train them with CF. Although mainpage WODs have been getting a bit crazy.. thankfully they backed off recently. You can still do some strength/skill work before them if you wanted to. Shrug. I mean, I don't see much benefit in training this stuff for a month or two and then just dropping it.

Quote:
P.S. you should come back to the CF forums
We'll see about that.


Also, if you wanted the bodyweight skill integration article that's in PMenu it's by Jim Bathurst:
http://www.performancemenu.com/zen/i...products_id=57
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Last edited by Steven Low : 10-04-2008 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 10-04-2008, 05:54 PM   #5
Chris H Laing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
Also, if you're working both planche and front lever you can alternate them to save time (do each every 90-180s or so).
Why every 90-180 sec? I thought you stopped at 60?


Quote:
I don't see much benefit in training this stuff for a month or two and then just dropping it.
When you say "this stuff" are you referring to the gymnastics training or the MEBB approach? Because I would still be doing gymnastics training along with the WODs.



Quote:
We'll see about that.
Why did you stop posting there anyway?

Quote:
Also, if you wanted the bodyweight skill integration article that's in PMenu it's by Jim Bathurst:
http://www.performancemenu.com/zen/i...products_id=57
It's funny you should mention that because I bought it today while I was looking around for ways to incorporate gymnastics into my routine.
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Old 10-04-2008, 06:13 PM   #6
Steven Low
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
Also, if you're working both planche and front lever you can alternate them to save time (do each every 90-180s or so).
Why every 90-180 sec? I thought you stopped at 60?
No, this would be inbetween sets of front lever and planche if you were alternating them. For example, if your max was 20s for tuck planche and 20s for front lever you would do:

10s planche hold
rest 150s (90-180s)
10s front lever hold
rest 150s
Etc. until you get 60s each of front lever and planche.

You can also straight set though and do all the planche at once and then all the front lever. But that's up to you. This is just one way to save a bit of time.

Quote:
Quote:
I don't see much benefit in training this stuff for a month or two and then just dropping it.
When you say "this stuff" are you referring to the gymnastics training or the MEBB approach? Because I would still be doing gymnastics training along with the WODs.
Alright then that's good.

Quote:
Quote:
We'll see about that.
Why did you stop posting there anyway?
Lots of reasons. I've voiced some of them in my posts on CF, but I don't want to air any dirty laundry so.. PM or something if you wanna know.

After I finish up my applications I'll consider it.. on a limited basis at least.

Quote:
Quote:
Also, if you wanted the bodyweight skill integration article that's in PMenu it's by Jim Bathurst:
http://www.performancemenu.com/zen/i...products_id=57
It's funny you should mention that because I bought it today while I was looking around for ways to incorporate gymnastics into my routine.
Good stuff. I like grouping everything into categories of pushing, pulling and posterior chain and then working from there. It tends to work out fine.
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Old 10-04-2008, 06:28 PM   #7
Chris H Laing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
Good stuff. I like grouping everything into categories of pushing, pulling and posterior chain and then working from there. It tends to work out fine.
Which movements would you consider posterior chain, because I can see the planche and L-sit being push, and the levers being pull, but I have no idea what would be considered a posterior chain movement.
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Old 10-04-2008, 07:36 PM   #8
Steven Low
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris H Laing View Post
Which movements would you consider posterior chain, because I can see the planche and L-sit being push, and the levers being pull, but I have no idea what would be considered a posterior chain movement.
That would be your squats, DLs, oly lifts, sprinting, pistols, plyometrics, etc. I would assume you still want to continue (or add) depending on your goals.
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Old 10-05-2008, 04:44 AM   #9
Chris H Laing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
That would be your squats, DLs, oly lifts, sprinting, pistols, plyometrics, etc. I would assume you still want to continue (or add) depending on your goals.
Wow I'm dumb. I was thinking purely in terms of gymnastic movements, but of course I plan to continue squats and deadlifts, and I'll be adding Oly when I can get my form down.
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