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Old 10-07-2008, 04:27 PM   #11
Liam Dougherty Springer
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Real muscle is hard to gain...be lucky at a true gain of 1-2lb a month consistently. Now glycogen loading and hypertrophy is a bit easier and can add up the total lbs much quicker. Of course with any glycogen loading program comes the chances for fat gain as unless you exactly know your spillover point from which glycogen goes from the muscle into fat cells, you will gain fat. Chances are your body is only hard wired for so much muscle too....so any new lifting plan will increase it, once you plateau you have to change things up with glycogen loading cycles and varied training protocols. All depends on your goals.
MOD I have seen you post a few times on adding 10 rep sets post strength sets for added hypertrophy. At first I am like... yeah I'll do that then I check my motives.... like you said what are my goals... GET STRONG! period. The Mass gain I am undergoing is honestly to fascilitate just that right now. I fear I will be over training if I add hypertrophy sets and right now I don't want to neglect strength work. What do you think?

My plan is to do this 6 week strength intensive progressive loading cycle of primaraly sets of 5 and below all compund movements with a little explosive and sprinting type stuff one day a week. Then take a week off find my 1rep max for the PM Mass Gain templet and expect a bit more hypertrophy and have the advantage of my new strength to boost my progress. Finaly as I taper off the food I will use a MEBB template to begin getting back into metcon while retaining my new strength and do some carb cycleing to lean out.

OK that was probrably more than you wanted to know but... Anyone have thoughts opinions suggestions or criticism?

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Yeah, where's their proof? I don't see any studies or citations.
I know bogus. Honestly it has me interested though which is only anoying so far I will keep looking for legit sources.
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Old 10-07-2008, 04:36 PM   #12
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MOD I have seen you post a few times on adding 10 rep sets post strength sets for added hypertrophy. At first I am like... yeah I'll do that then I check my motives.... like you said what are my goals... GET STRONG! period. The Mass gain I am undergoing is honestly to fascilitate just that right now. I fear I will be over training if I add hypertrophy sets and right now I don't want to neglect strength work. What do you think?
Highly doubt a few 2x10s are going to overtrain you unless you go to failure. Strength is more CNS responsive than glycolitic, but you can deplete muscle glycogen and prime for reloading and growth (of course best used 1-2x a week). Can't hurt as it's not the main focus and also the bigger you are, the stronger you will get. Everyone does it....even the boys at Westside.
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Old 10-07-2008, 04:40 PM   #13
Liam Dougherty Springer
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Highly doubt a few 2x10s are going to overtrain you unless you go to failure. Strength is more CNS responsive than glycolitic, but you can deplete muscle glycogen and prime for reloading and growth (of course best used 1-2x a week). Can't hurt as it's not the main focus and also the bigger you are, the stronger you will get. Everyone does it....even the boys at Westside.
It will be done.
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Old 10-07-2008, 04:52 PM   #14
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Mike I was thinking....

....is it necesary for me to be carb cycleing for this to help because I am realy doing the carbs on training days Fat on rest days thing? Will the 2x10s still do their job?

Should I do something like 2x10 of 2 compound movements one lower one upper 2x aweek and alternate the movements?

FS/SP

BS/Weighted chin ups

Halting Deadlift/Weighted Dips

C&J and or Snatch
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Old 10-07-2008, 05:28 PM   #15
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You could do a carb up once a week if you want to give it a shot....or every workout (which would have to be smaller meals and I wouldn't advise as I think you get more bang for the buck with 1-2 loads, like a body opus approach, as you can still keep lean). However I would watch how often and how much you do....as you can lower sensitivity if done too much every week. Strength reps can be done on almost ketogenic diets.

Play around...see what happens. Best case you learn something more about how you respond to different protocols and eating....worst case you take no action and learn nothing. There are many ways to get strong and size.....and none of them start with "more research". You have a good base of knowledge, now time to apply and adjust....you may discover your own way that works.
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Old 10-07-2008, 06:34 PM   #16
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Mike that is the inevitable conclusion every time try it and if it dosen't work change it.

Right now I am eating alot of carbs and usualy I eat almost none.... I am gaining a noticable amount of fat..... I was honestly epecting that but I think I am going to switch it up and cycle.

Once on my heaviest strength day, tues. DL every other week and thur. BS on off weeks, and again On my highest rep day Sat. I will do some Oly form work one heavy lift and a full body hypetrophy focus at the end before my carb up. the carbs on other days I will keep at around 10% calories and do a little fruit in the morning and banana PWO if its not a rest day.

I have also only been IFing 18hr. once a week and I miss it I am gonna throw in another whenever I only have 48 hrs between carb days. I'll see if I like that any better.

I guess I will keep calories close to where they are for now by upping the fat and some extra protein hit like 1.5g/#.

Thanx everyone we will see what happens next.
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Old 10-08-2008, 07:56 AM   #17
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Mike that is the inevitable conclusion every time try it and if it dosen't work change it.

Right now I am eating alot of carbs and usualy I eat almost none.... I am gaining a noticable amount of fat..... I was honestly expecting that but I think I am going to switch it up and cycle.
Sure...change is good right? Otherwise you would already have results and not need advice.

How many carb ups are you doing? How are you getting your carbs? (all in one sitting?). Usually 1-2 carb ups a week is best. Best approach too is spreading the carbs out.....multiple meals, slower absorption. Fat = Carb spillover from muscle which could mean either it's not as depleted as you think (too many carbs).....or you are putting too many carbs in at once. You can start with higher GI based carbs right after and then start getting into more slower ones. That and watch fruit intake....as once your liver glycogen is full excess fructose is going to end up in fat.
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Last edited by Mike ODonnell; 10-08-2008 at 07:58 AM.
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Old 10-08-2008, 12:21 PM   #18
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How many carb ups are you doing? How are you getting your carbs? (all in one sitting?). Usually 1-2 carb ups a week is best. Best approach too is spreading the carbs out.....multiple meals, slower absorption. Fat = Carb spillover from muscle which could mean either it's not as depleted as you think (too many carbs).....or you are putting too many carbs in at once. You can start with higher GI based carbs right after and then start getting into more slower ones. That and watch fruit intake....as once your liver glycogen is full excess fructose is going to end up in fat.
Sounds good I am gonna start off with two loads a week tue/sat my one big question.... I unfortunately can't drink guiness .... what is a good alternative for loading?

But seriousely should I do the a little fruit and Malto dextros recvery drink thing to start the load then go to like yams, sprouted/fermented grains? Should I do a little white flour products early on?

I know the answer is going to be try it out and see what works for you . I guess the biggest question I have is with regards to wanting that PWO insulin and glucose rush in order to make it effective but maltodextros and white bread just weirds me out if it is better for the kick off thats fine though. Any experience you have would be appreciated.

Oh and back when I was doing a similar plan I had read that a carb rich meal pre work out would help get the insulin going for the load and perhaps that would lessen the need for liquid/refined carbs PWO. However back then I loved maltodextros and white bread .
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:03 PM   #19
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Personally I would go find yourself a Mexican place and get a pitcher of marghettas and chicken faijtas with rice....now that's a fun load! (Guinness and pizza come later)
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Old 10-08-2008, 04:21 PM   #20
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Personally I would go find yourself a Mexican place and get a pitcher of marghettas and chicken faijtas with rice....now that's a fun load! (Guinness and pizza come later)
You are absolutely right Sat. are gaonna be big fun day Tues. I'll play around with a stream lined load.
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