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Old 12-09-2008, 07:24 AM   #11
Mike ODonnell
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Originally Posted by Chris Salvato View Post
salmonella is also overplayed by our society....
Everything is nowadays with fearful marketing....as we live in a "scary" world....all this focus on what will kill us all day long....wonder if anyone actually gets around to just enjoying life.
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Old 12-09-2008, 10:43 AM   #12
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If you enjoy life too much people think you are using drugs
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Old 12-09-2008, 11:20 AM   #13
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From http://www.textbookofbacteriology.net/normalflora.html :
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The effects of the normal flora are inferred by microbiologists from experimental comparisons between "germ-free" animals (which are not colonized by any microbes) and conventional animals (which are colonized with a typical normal flora). Briefly, some of the characteristics of a germ-free animals that are thought to be due to lack of exposure to a normal flora are:

1. vitamin deficiencies, especially vitamin K and vitamin B12
2. increased susceptibility to infectious disease
3. poorly developed immune system, especially in the gastrointestinal tract
4. lack of "natural antibody" or natural immunity to bacterial infection

Because these conditions in germ-free mice and hamsters do not occur in conventional animals, or are alleviated by introduction of a bacterial flora (at the appropriate time of development), it is tempting to conclude that the human normal flora make similar contributions to human nutrition, health and development. The overall beneficial effects of microbes are summarized below.

1. The normal flora synthesize and excrete vitamins in excess of their own needs, which can be absorbed as nutrients by their host. For example, in humans, enteric bacteria secrete Vitamin K and Vitamin B12, and lactic acid bacteria produce certain B-vitamins. Germ-free animals may be deficient in Vitamin K to the extent that it is necessary to supplement their diets.

2. The normal flora prevent colonization by pathogens by competing for attachment sites or for essential nutrients. This is thought to be their most important beneficial effect, which has been demonstrated in the oral cavity, the intestine, the skin, and the vaginal epithelium. In some experiments, germ-free animals can be infected by 10 Salmonella bacteria, while the infectious dose for conventional animals is near 106 [as in, 10,000,000, my addition]cells.

3. The normal flora may antagonize other bacteria through the production of substances which inhibit or kill nonindigenous species. The intestinal bacteria produce a variety of substances ranging from relatively nonspecific fatty acids and peroxides to highly specific bacteriocins, which inhibit or kill other bacteria.

4. The normal flora stimulate the development of certain tissues, i.e., the caecum and certain lymphatic tissues (Peyer's patches) in the GI tract. The caecum of germ-free animals is enlarged, thin-walled, and fluid-filled, compared to that organ in conventional animals. Also, based on the ability to undergo immunological stimulation, the intestinal lymphatic tissues of germ-free animals are poorly-developed compared to conventional animals.

5. The normal flora stimulate the production of natural antibodies. Since the normal flora behave as antigens in an animal, they induce an immunological response, in particular, an antibody-mediated immune (AMI) response. Low levels of antibodies produced against components of the normal flora are known to cross react with certain related pathogens, and thereby prevent infection or invasion. Antibodies produced against antigenic components of the normal flora are sometimes referred to as "natural" antibodies, and such antibodies are lacking in germ-free animals.
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Harmful effects of the normal flora, some of which are observed in studies with germ-free animals, can be put in the following categories. All but the last two are fairly insignificant.

1. Bacterial synergism between a member of the normal flora and a potential pathogen. This means that one organism is helping another to grow or survive. There are examples of a member of the normal flora supplying a vitamin or some other growth factor that a pathogen needs in order to grow. This is called cross-feeding between microbes. Another example of synergism occurs during treatment of "staph-protected infections" when a penicillin-resistant staphylococcus that is a component of the normal flora shares its drug resistance with pathogens that are otherwise susceptible to the drug.

2. Competition for nutrients Bacteria in the gastrointestinal tract must absorb some of the host's nutrients for their own needs. However, in general, they transform them into other metabolisable compounds, but some nutrient(s) may be lost to the host. Germ-free animals are known to grow more rapidly and efficiently than conventional animals. One explanation for incorporating antibiotics into the food of swine, cows and poultry is that the animal grows faster and can therefore be marketed earlier. Unfortunately, this practice contributes to the development and spread of bacterial antibiotic resistance within the farm animals, as well as humans.

3. Induction of a low grade toxemia Minute amounts of bacterial toxins (e.g. endotoxin) may be found in the circulation. Of course, it is these small amounts of bacterial antigen that stimulate the formation of natural antibodies.

4. The normal flora may be agents of disease. Members of the normal flora may cause endogenous disease if they reach a site or tissue where they cannot be restricted or tolerated by the host defenses. Many of the normal flora are potential pathogens, and if they gain access to a compromised tissue from which they can invade, disease may result.

5. Transfer to susceptible hosts. Some pathogens of humans that are members of the normal flora may also rely on their host for transfer to other individuals where they can produce disease. This includes the pathogens that colonize the upper respiratory tract such as Neisseria meningitidis, Streptococcus pneumoniae, Haemophilus influenzae and Staphylococcus aureus, and potential pathogens such as E. coli, Salmonella or Clostridium in the gastrointestinal tract.
Eat your cultured foods, take antibiotics only when necessary, eat some raw meat every once in a while (or more), everything will be fine.
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Old 12-10-2008, 02:27 AM   #14
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Thanks heaps for all the replies to better understand the whole salmonella thing!

Thanks Garrett for the reference article, was an interesting read
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Old 12-10-2008, 04:41 PM   #15
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raw chicken is way too squishy and slimey to be a nice texture. raw fish is a bit more solid at least.

raw steaks are good
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Old 12-11-2008, 07:52 AM   #16
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The lemon juice does a bit of chemical cooking that tightens up the chicken...a bit.
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