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Old 02-04-2009, 11:06 AM   #1
Brian Lawyer
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Default DC - Snatch Balance and Mid-hang Snatch

My coach suggested doing some snatch balances and hang snatches. So I went through the CA WOD archives and found the below WOD that included both. Any digital coaching advice would be appreciated.

**All links WFS**

Power Snatch + Snatch Balance + Mid-hang Snatch
Set 1 - 120lbs
Set 2 - 120lbs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxi3qxVhAdk
Set 3 - 120lbs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWCWGcclDLA
Set 4 - 125lbs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvxB2lONK-8
Set 5 - 125lbs

Power Clean + Power Jerk + Split Jerk
5 x 185lbs - No video
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:21 AM   #2
Brian Lawyer
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Default Snatch Balance Technique

For my snatch balances I was trying to start with locked straight legs and simply initiate the movement via an ankle extension. I know Coach Everett and the demo vids show a slightly different variation of the snatch balance where the movement is initiated with a slight dip almost like a jerk. Based on advice from my coach I opted just for the ankle extension so as to avoid making the movement into a snatch jerk.

I don't know if there is a right or wrong way to do the snatch balance.....
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:19 PM   #3
Emily Mattes
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You do kind of a cross between a snatch balance and a heaving snatch balance (that's how I refer to them anyway). With a strict snatch balance I just drop straight down under the bar, no push at all. Heaving snatch balance, you give a little push to get the bar up just a tad before dropping under it. My only concern with initiating with the ankles is it may train you to start coming off your heels too early in the pull and catching the lift forward. I'm no expert, though.

The starting position for your hang looks pretty good, but your bar path swings out quite a bit. Keep it closer to your body. Remember that you are allowed to let your arms bend as the bar travels upward, you just don't want to actually pull with them.
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:42 PM   #4
Brian Lawyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily Mattes View Post
... you just don't want to actually pull with them.
Thanks Emily! that is good critique. I hadn't noticed, until you said, that my arms were swinging out.

Regarding your one point above, aren't we at some point supposed to use our arms to pull under the bar, i.e. the third pull on the snatch. Or were you just talking in terms of the second pull that I don't want to be pulling with my arms.
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Old 02-04-2009, 03:52 PM   #5
Derek Maffett
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I see what you're trying but keep in mind that the ankle extension you're using here is different from the ankle extension you'd see in a normal lift. It normally occurs with weight over the heels (dynamically), but you're coming up and forward onto your ankles. Your COG should stay over the heels, so you're actually changing the mechanics of the lift, causing more significant problems in the future.

Besides that, the snatch balances looked good. Try for full depth on the squat, though.
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Old 02-04-2009, 03:58 PM   #6
Derek Maffett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Lawyer View Post
Regarding your one point above, aren't we at some point supposed to use our arms to pull under the bar, i.e. the third pull on the snatch. Or were you just talking in terms of the second pull that I don't want to be pulling with my arms.
She means no pulling during the first and second pulls. Third pull - all greens are go, pull the levers, bat the hatches, raise the curtains, strike up the band, and get things started on the pulling thingy. And subsequently pressing thingy because this is a snatch.
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Old 02-04-2009, 04:24 PM   #7
Brian Lawyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Maffett View Post
I see what you're trying but keep in mind that the ankle extension you're using here is different from the ankle extension you'd see in a normal lift. It normally occurs with weight over the heels (dynamically), but you're coming up and forward onto your ankles. Your COG should stay over the heels, so you're actually changing the mechanics of the lift, causing more significant problems in the future.

Besides that, the snatch balances looked good. Try for full depth on the squat, though.
Derek, thanks for responding again. You appear to be one of my regulars with good insight as usual!!

Lot's of random thoughts to follow...

I think I understand what you are saying about ankle extension but I also believe you are thinking in terms of that I am doing the ankle extension in order to somehow mimic or practice that which occurs in an actual snatch or C&J which I don't think is the case.

I believe my coach was having me initiate the movement with ankle extension simply as a means to create a slight separation from the bar in order to drop into the snatch recieving position, as opposed, to the more dramatic dip and go that is shown on the demo vids (i.e. like a mini-jerk or "heave" as Emily described). So like emily was saying, it is kind of an cross between the two (i.e. a middle progression) of simply dropping into a recieving position and doing the heaving version.

So with that in mind, do you still think I am looking at problems in the future? If so, do you think Greg Everett's method of Snatch balance with the mini-jerk to create separation is better or should I go with Emily's suggestion of simply dropping into a recieving position.

I am thinking for this particular routine, Power Snatch + Snatch Balance + MH Snatch, I would opt for the dipping or heaving snatch balance so that I can use a weight that is still challenging for the power snatch and hang snatch. I will probably have to use lighter weight if I was simply going to drop into a recieving position.
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Old 02-04-2009, 04:44 PM   #8
Brian Lawyer
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Default Snatch Balance Terminologies

OK, I did some more research on CA exercises and Demos. Here are the snatch balance variations according to Mr. Everett.

Snatch balance - according to the video description, this is as Emily described, simply holding the bar racked on your back with snatch grip and dropping into a recieving position. But the demo vid and Mr. Everett's book both say to initiate this with a slight dip and drive, followed by the foot transition.

Heaving Snatch balance - here there is apparently no foot transition. you start and end with feet in recieving position. This exercise is still initiated by the dip and drive under the bar but your feet never leave the ground.

Pressing snatch balance - This is the same as the heaving snatch but without the dip drive to initiate the movement. So feet in receiving position and no foot transition and you simply press under the bar.
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Old 02-04-2009, 05:11 PM   #9
Brian DeGennaro
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A snatch balance is simply popping the bar off the shoulder just to unload it and drop under it as fast as possible in an attempt to catch it at arms length in the bottom of a squat. The difference between heaving and just regular snatch balance is the aggressiveness. For a true snatch balance you want to pull yourself under the bar with the same speed you would a snatch.
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Old 02-04-2009, 05:56 PM   #10
Emily Mattes
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Here is where different exercises get different names depending on the coach and what they like to see. The way I've heard snatch balances/drop snatches used is if there is any push at all, it's a heaving snatch balance. Strict snatch balance is just drop under that sucker and pop your arms up. Pressing snatch balance is going down slowly while pressing the bar up.

So using these terms, this is my understanding of the exercise you should use depending on your needs:

If you just need speed under the bar, do the strict, no push snatch balance. It's tougher. I think mainly for psychological reasons, because sometimes I'm ready to go and my brain says "What, you want to drop down with this weight on your back? I don't think so! We're staying right here!" Then it becomes incredibly difficult to force myself to drop.

If you need to get more comfortable with having more weight over your head, use a heaving-type snatch balance, as you'll be able to put up more weight with it.

If you need more overhead strength, do the pressing snatch balance.
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