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Old 02-13-2009, 08:49 AM   #11
Greg Everett
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Sure, bring them both over and they can train whenever they need to.

I'll dig up some video for you - any particular angle you'd prefer?
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Old 02-13-2009, 08:52 AM   #12
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Here's one of her - http://www.cathletics.com/wod/video/...eavySingle.mov

Not super heavy, but getting there (120).
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:02 AM   #13
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45 degree from front would be nice.
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:36 AM   #14
Aimee Anaya Everett
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Glen-
I am so excited you are coming for a visit!
We would love to have you. and Caleb too. and Donny.
Please come as much as you can while you are here. It will be great to have you in the gym. If you need a room, your are more than welcome to shack up in our extra bedroom. And eat steak and bacon!
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:37 AM   #15
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p.s.
and I don't mind that you posted the video. You are welcome to take any video you'd like while you are here.
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:42 AM   #16
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Oh, and thanks for fighting the good fight with us (I went on and saw the crossfit message regarding squats). Endless, huh?

we totally high-jacked this thread!
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Old 02-13-2009, 06:52 PM   #17
Arden Cogar Jr.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennpendlay View Post
when trying to clean up the pull, i find it helpful to do the following:

stand straight up with the bar in your hands, shoulders back. bend the knees slightly, about 3-4 inches, do this without bending at the hip, or without leaning over. this puts you in a position that although is maybe not textbook, is a realistic representation of the position that the second pull or explosive phase actually occurs in most lifters. stop in this position, get to know it. i call this the second pull position. do a clean from this position, in fact, do several, on each one, repeat the process of standing straight, puling the shoulders together, stopping, and taking stock of where you are. then bend the knees and get into the second pull position, again, STOP, take stock of where you are, get to know this position, do another clean, repeat till you are comfortable with both positions and can get into either with little fidgeting.

now, get into the second pull position, via the method described above, stop, make sure to stop, then slowly (again, after you have stopped in the second pull position) slowly, bend at the hip so as to allow the bar to slide down your thigh till the bar is just below your kneecap. do this slowly. when the bar is right below your kneecap, resting against the patellar ligament, not the patellar tendon, but the patellar ligament directly below the kneecap, stop. stop for 3 or 4 seconds, maintainning a tight back... then slowly, slowly, extend the hip (not the knees, they should neither flex nor extend while you are going from the second pull position to the below the knee position, what i call the low hang position), keep extending the hip till you feel yourself coming to the second pull position, the position we achieved by flexing the knees. when you feel yourself in this position, simply jump, catch the bar, and viola you have a clean.

gradually repeat this exercise, maintaing the stops and the slow speed of movement on the way down, but gradually increasing speed on the way up, increasing speed to the limit of how fast you can go while still hitting the second pull position on the way up in exactly the same way as you hit it on the way down.

hope that helps.

glenn

Wow. This is an awesome post. Just awesome. Glenn thanks so much for doing this. I say this because my double knee bend and full extension absolutely sucks.

Here's an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abG6v...e=channel_page

So, from what you're saying, and I'm really trying to understand -

1. First pull - leg drive only; no extension of hips. Bar goes to above knees and knees start to come under the bar. Shoulders are in front of the bar
2. sorta Second pull - as the knees are coming under the bar, the hips extend. This is where hips should come to the bar somewhere above the knee, but at about mid thigh - the knees are coming forward under the bar to put you in a good jumping position - shoulders still in front of the bar as best you can.
3. Real second pull - this is your second pull position - bar is at mid thigh, hips are extended (I never knew this until you wrote it above), knees are under the bar and you jump upwards - head goes back a bit eyes straight forward maybe a little up - shrug like a muther.

I typed the above because I want to understand this so I can learn to do it as I'm growing very frustrated with my failure to progress as well as I think I should. I'm a 800+ lb deadlifter and I can power curl/clean with really bad form 140 to 150kilos. Yet, my squat clean, which I committed to 10 weeks ago should be better and I think this thread has brought me to one of many possible reasons.

Any words of advice would be greatly appreciated. And thanks to Emily for starting this thread. I love this stuff.

All the best,
Arden
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Old 02-13-2009, 08:35 PM   #18
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Arden,

Congrats on a super strong DL, thats an awesome lift.

You have my analysis basically correcty, but keep in mind this is a method of teaching the lifts based on my belief that there are several positions within the pull that if hit correctly, will ensure a correct pull and will insure that the movement between those positions happens correctly. It is not meant to be an accurate description of what actually happens during the clean or snatch of an Elite lifter.

Hitting the positions, and stopping at the second pull position, which you reach via knee flexion only, then hitting the low hang position, which is reached from the second pull position via hip flexion only, then hitting the floor, which is reached from the low hang position via knee flexion only, and stopping and getting to know each of these positions really well, will do a lot for making things happen correctly on the way up.

When you are first learning, you come up in neccessarily jerky "stages" extending the knees, then extending the hips and dragging the bar up the things, then jumping, there are hesitations at the beginning/end of each stage of the pull. Then you continue to do each rep starting with the lowering of the bar in stages until you can slowly speed up and smooth out the pull on the way up and still hit the correct positions, once you achieve a smooth pull at a decent rate of speed on teh way up, you can stop the lowering of the bar in this manner, and just pull off the floor. Till you become proficient, you will still want to go back to this drill periodically when you feel yourself getting a little "off".

Also, dont worry about your double knee bend. In my experience, when a lifter is taught to do the lifts in this manner, the double knee bend happens naturally without the person even being aware of it 100% of the time. And that is 100% of the time on literally hundreds and hundreds of people, that I have taught to do the lifts, thousands in fact if you count strength seminars in high schools. The double knee bend ALWAYS happens, it has to.

I want to be fair and give credit where credit is due here. I never really thought about or realized the "why" of this till I read what Greg E. had to say concerning the second knee bend. He stated in his book that the powerful hip extension that occurs as the bar is brought into the second pull position causes the knee to bend because the use of the hamstrings in the hip extension movement bends the knee involuntarily. I can see now that my emphasising and exaggerating the period of hip extension without any knee extension happening forces a double knee bend, in fact often forces an exaggerated couble knee bend, and this "teaches" a person to do it, and gets them used to doing it without them ever doing it on purpose.

glenn
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Old 02-14-2009, 02:45 AM   #19
Arden Cogar Jr.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennpendlay View Post
Arden,

Congrats on a super strong DL, thats an awesome lift.

You have my analysis basically correcty, but keep in mind this is a method of teaching the lifts based on my belief that there are several positions within the pull that if hit correctly, will ensure a correct pull and will insure that the movement between those positions happens correctly. It is not meant to be an accurate description of what actually happens during the clean or snatch of an Elite lifter.

Hitting the positions, and stopping at the second pull position, which you reach via knee flexion only, then hitting the low hang position, which is reached from the second pull position via hip flexion only, then hitting the floor, which is reached from the low hang position via knee flexion only, and stopping and getting to know each of these positions really well, will do a lot for making things happen correctly on the way up.

When you are first learning, you come up in neccessarily jerky "stages" extending the knees, then extending the hips and dragging the bar up the things, then jumping, there are hesitations at the beginning/end of each stage of the pull. Then you continue to do each rep starting with the lowering of the bar in stages until you can slowly speed up and smooth out the pull on the way up and still hit the correct positions, once you achieve a smooth pull at a decent rate of speed on teh way up, you can stop the lowering of the bar in this manner, and just pull off the floor. Till you become proficient, you will still want to go back to this drill periodically when you feel yourself getting a little "off".

Also, dont worry about your double knee bend. In my experience, when a lifter is taught to do the lifts in this manner, the double knee bend happens naturally without the person even being aware of it 100% of the time. And that is 100% of the time on literally hundreds and hundreds of people, that I have taught to do the lifts, thousands in fact if you count strength seminars in high schools. The double knee bend ALWAYS happens, it has to.

I want to be fair and give credit where credit is due here. I never really thought about or realized the "why" of this till I read what Greg E. had to say concerning the second knee bend. He stated in his book that the powerful hip extension that occurs as the bar is brought into the second pull position causes the knee to bend because the use of the hamstrings in the hip extension movement bends the knee involuntarily. I can see now that my emphasising and exaggerating the period of hip extension without any knee extension happening forces a double knee bend, in fact often forces an exaggerated couble knee bend, and this "teaches" a person to do it, and gets them used to doing it without them ever doing it on purpose.

glenn
Glen,
Thank you so much. It's going to take a long time to get this down and I'm committed to this humbling process. I enjoy drills as they spice up the training - I do tons of drill work for my sport when I'm not as energetic as I'd like to be - so pulls as you've outlined would be perfect for me. I sincerely appreciate your time and effort. Means a lot to me.

All the best,
Arden
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Old 02-19-2009, 08:56 PM   #20
Dave Paton
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Greg or Glenn,

Do you have any video of what you are talking about? Greg: mid thigh jump, Glenn: Well, the stuff you said. I guess i'm a visual learner.

I tend to "hump" the bar with not enough "jump" the bar.

thanks.
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