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Old 02-12-2009, 09:19 AM   #11
Gant Grimes
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Derek, you are a student of history, and I appreciate that. Real Ultimate Power is 90% of my education, but I had not read that story before. Thanks.

Dr. G's list is excellent, and he is correct about Tabata.

Consider the graph and contemplate. What does this tell you about the number of rounds necessary? What does this tell you about starting level of conditioning (my week 1 results) and its effect?

**Joey Powell and I had a drawn-out debate about the necessary intensity for Tabata. IIRC he suggested that intensity should be sub-maximal, and that I was confusing this with perceived exertion. Well, that's fine if you're on an erg machine, but if you're managing your effort, you might shortchange yourself a pullup or two, and that's a large percentage when you're doing Tabata.

Go balls-out. It's the only way. If you're not flat-lining after 3-4 rounds, there's something wrong. If you're doing four consecutive exercises, please refer to them as "20:10 Intervals" rather than Tabatas.

I'm glad Dr. G brought these up. I'm going to start them again...to train my recovery ability.
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Old 02-12-2009, 01:16 PM   #12
Craig Brown
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Too damn funny. I just was looking at your Tabata project for use again yesterday, Gant.
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Old 02-12-2009, 04:44 PM   #13
Patrick Yeung
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Wow... Thats just beautiful.

Looks like I was experiencing similar to what you were around round 4, a comparatively larger decrease in performance. And, since CF suggests that each round be as strong, if not stronger than the last, I did not know how they could possibly do that. My experience with tabatas is only sprinting/cycle though, not with lifting.

I read your hybrid program and it looks like a lot of fun. Ill have to look into some more of your older posts to see what other goodies I havent found yet

And thanks Garrett, your posts are always short and to the point.
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:34 PM   #14
Peter Dell'Orto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Yeung View Post
Looks like I was experiencing similar to what you were around round 4, a comparatively larger decrease in performance.
Yeah. I started out doing my own version of the Tabata Project with 8-round versions. Gant warned me that would be overkill, but I tried it anyway. He was right, it was too much. I also made a critical mistake by including dips, and found out for certain that dips + my old shoulder injury = re-occurrence of the injury, which cut my project a little short. At least I learned not to do dips anymore.

What I learned from the actual numbers, though, was that I had two basic results:

1) A steep drop-off after round 4.

OR

2) No drop-off over 8 rounds.

My pushups might drop to 25% or less of the first-round numbers by round 4 and then flatline from there. But my air squats or v-ups wouldn't decrease at all. In fact, I started the project doing 16 squats a round. Now I can get 18, and it's just me getting a little faster off the mark and doing the squats a little faster. I often speed up from round 2-8 because I get into the groove.

In short I'd either crash fast from lack of strength, or I'd just speed through an aerobic workout.

Since then I've largely confined myself to 4-round Tabatas for the strength challenges (pushups still kill me) and use the 8-rounders when I want to get in some condition work fast.

As for the CF ideal of round after round of identical numbers, they can only be pacing. Or doing movements that are pretty easy for them. If you go all-out on something that taxes you, you're going to drop in numbers by round 8.

All in my experience. I didn't do cool charts like Gant, though!
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:56 PM   #15
matthew eucalitto
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.

I think really high-rep cals and BB exercises and plyometrics (think Filthy Fifty) result in appreciably bad form as fatigue sets in, which results in a huge drain on the system as well as a source of accumulated microtrauma due to the poor form. Running is obviously well-suited for longer stretches (assuming form is proper), as is rowing. Push-ups, box jumps, burpees, BB snatches, etc., are not. Quick question--what is the reason you left CF programming if it was so productive for you? Were your long metcons wearing you down, or possibly getting tedious/boring? Were you losing maximum strength, or not progressing? Remember always that anyone new to the CF setup always makes rapid progress, regardless of the length of their metcons.

-Just a question though, isn't there a reason to throw these in there once in a while? I realize it is very taxing on the body, and causes a breakdown in form, but does that have no benefit to an athlete intermittently throughout the year? I assume this is why these types of very long WODs don't come up that often on the CF mainsite WODs.

However, some of the affiliate websites seem to list them very often...which I believe reflects more a 'tough-guy' mentality.
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Old 03-02-2009, 11:24 PM   #16
Derek Weaver
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Originally Posted by matthew eucalitto View Post
-Just a question though, isn't there a reason to throw these in there once in a while? I realize it is very taxing on the body, and causes a breakdown in form, but does that have no benefit to an athlete intermittently throughout the year? I assume this is why these types of very long WODs don't come up that often on the CF mainsite WODs.

However, some of the affiliate websites seem to list them very often...which I believe reflects more a 'tough-guy' mentality.
Form breakdown, depending on how severe isn't a problem. The accuracy analogy used at the CF Level 1 cert is a perfect way to explain it, they used a firing range/target example. Here's mine: If every rep is absolutely perfect, intensity isn't achieved. If every rep is sloppy, injuries will happen and intensity isn't applied properly. If there are a few reps that aren't great (but aren't so bad as to cause injury) then intensity is balanced and the workout is likely to achieve the goals of the programmer (whatever that may be).

The chipper isn't the problem. One chipper every week or two, or four weeks isn't going to hurt anyone. It's the consistent programming of high rep programming meant to last ~20-40 minutes, that so many poorly coached affiliates fall into the trap of that causes the problem. It's the CF addiction that we see too often (and I've been a part of) that screws people up. Never taking back off weeks and purposely skipping rest days is a recipe for disaster.

So yes, I agree with you, that they have their place if used correctly.
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:20 PM   #17
matthew eucalitto
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Thanks Derek, thats exactly what i was wondering. I enjoy those, but in limited doses.. once, MAYBE twice a month to really stress myself. If it comes up too often on the mainsite WOD ( which I haven't seen much of ) I will ignore it.
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