V-Diet

[Danny John]

The health benefits for me were secondary at the time...but amazing later, Mike. As I look back on my blood profile changes, truly extraordinary in a 28 day period, that is the amazing thing. My primary focus at the time was to deal with some issues...but a few months later, it is the health benefits that seem to ring the most true.

This is a good thread.

[Mike ODonnell]

DJ,

Those were amazing results. Aside from the fat loss I have to think health is most important. I imagine you did gain back some water weight after it was over due to glycogen and water replenishment? What kind of eating plan do you follow now to keep those results? More like a Zone approach?

I deal mostly with the "American Public"...aka fat, overweight, high BP, arthritis, etc..etc..You know the ones that will no way in hell follow a 5-6x a day eating plan...and may not be strong enough to do something like a V-Diet. I wish I dealt with higher end people who would tought it out....but alas the majority of people are really not wanting to do Frans and "suck it up" on the diet....although I can always tell them too. I have learned over the years however not to become too much of a friend and get more tough with them...but not so tough I scare them off and they dont get healthy.

Anyways....where I was going with that is, do you or anyone think there is some sort of middle ground for the average person where they do say 1-2 real meals and 3-4 liquid ones? Real meals being only protein, veg, and healthy fat? Can a person do shakes all day and have a dinner of food at night and still get those results? Dunno...just trying to figure out something that my clients would realistically follow....and esp the fasting part and health benefits are of interest due to the amount of people with autoimmune disorders and inflammation issues....that's a grey area considering all the meds some people could be on too......Hmmmmm.....lots to think about....

[Mike ODonnell]

Originally Posted by Allen Yeh

I did a smoothie fast from the book The Detox Diet by Dr. Haas, I did it basically to support my wife when she was doing it. Holy crap talking about gnawing hunger, it was basically get all your calories in by smoothie except for lemon water in the morning plus a fruit to "detox" the body.

Alan I think I remember that one.....I am wondering if the presence of sugar in the fruits and smoothies kept the cravings going.....vs say the V-diet approach of protein only and PWO sugars only....just thinking out loud here...

[Dave Van Skike]

Originally Posted by Mike ODonnell

DJ,

Those were amazing results. Aside from the fat loss I have to think health is most important. I imagine you did gain back some water weight after it was over due to glycogen and water replenishment? What kind of eating plan do you follow now to keep those results? More like a Zone approach?

I deal mostly with the "American Public"...aka fat, overweight, high BP, arthritis, etc..etc..You know the ones that will no way in hell follow a 5-6x a day eating plan...and may not be strong enough to do something like a V-Diet. I wish I dealt with higher end people who would tought it out....but alas the majority of people are really not wanting to do Frans and "suck it up" on the diet....although I can always tell them too. I have learned over the years however not to become too much of a friend and get more tough with them...but not so tough I scare them off and they dont get healthy.

Anyways....where I was going with that is, do you or anyone think there is some sort of middle ground for the average person where they do say 1-2 real meals and 3-4 liquid ones? Real meals being only protein, veg, and healthy fat? Can a person do shakes all day and have a dinner of food at night and still get those results? Dunno...just trying to figure out something that my clients would realistically follow....and esp the fasting part and health benefits are of interest due to the amount of people with autoimmune disorders and inflammation issues....that's a grey area considering all the meds some people could be on too......Hmmmmm.....lots to think about....

Mike. I think if you look back through Dan's log and the experience of others you'll see that a "middle ground" is pertty tough to Mintain. Shaf hit it on the ehad. With IF and V-diet there is a clear line between On and Off. When you are a 1000 kcal in the red, it makes sense tro simplify your choices.

Realize that I had success with a modified version. My "breakdown" on the diet was to add one tuna salad each day instead of a shake. This felt like an enormous cheat at the time. In reality, it's probabaly even less calories than a shake.

I think the spartan psychology of the diet is the most important thing. Moderation in these matters doesn't work. if you are 50 pounds overfat, you don't need moderation, you need radical change. Change stems from imbalance, not a moderate appraoch.

Like I said, the cahnges were profound enough for me to insprie three other people to try. My wife has stuck it out, one friend bailed right off the bat and another started a different program.

[Dave Van Skike]

- is it suitable if you play intense, anaerobic sports like hockey?

No. This is a fast. you are not really eating anything like enough calories to sustain super intense work. You can still play but you'll suck for a while.

- where is there more information on it?

T-nation has Dan's log, there is a tone of stuff on Lyle McDonald's board about protein sparring modified fasts.

[Dave Van Skike]

Originally Posted by Mike ODonnell

Also how important is the thermogenic aids? I would guess not vital if you do it for only 30 days.

I quit taking them but have subsequently revised my thinking. I do think they help with hunger cravings and my wife has had good luck with them in speedign up fat loss. I wouldn't say they are absolutley neccesary but it seems to help duirng an intense diet. Once your off of a fat loss diet, I think they are stupid.

[hollis petri]

I did the v-diet twice (28 days long) . Once as prescribed and once a year ago where i made a whole foods version of it. Meaning I used the same number of grams of carbs/protein/fat as the shake diet but used whole foods instead: Chicken, cans of Tj's Salmon, eggs, almonds instead of the flax (with extra fish oil tablets to get 6/3 ration to 4/1).

I lost over 20 pounds both times. I made the whole foods version just as regimented as the v-diet. There was no variation and everything was measured. However I would tell people to do the v-diet as prescribed if you want the easier solution. Its less initial estimating to do and making the shakes is pretty easy. Lot of meat to eat if you go the whole foods route.

No idea if there is a health cost to such an extreme diet but I can tell you that the blood work results were impressive. On the shake version (which is when i made sure I got a pre and post diet lab test to satisfy my curiosity) my LDL dropped 75 points in 28 days. I genetically have high Cho and to have it drop that much made me a happy camper.

[Mike ODonnell]

Originally Posted by Dave Van Skike

Mike. I think if you look back through Dan's log and the experience of others you'll see that a "middle ground" is pertty tough to Mintain. Shaf hit it on the ehad. With IF and V-diet there is a clear line between On and Off. When you are a 1000 kcal in the red, it makes sense tro simplify your choices.

Dave thanks for your experiences. I was looking to see if 3 shakes and 2 meals gives the same fat loss and health benefits of the all shakes method. In the end....if the calories are the exact same I would imagine fat loss will be identical...since fat loss is a calorie in vs out equation.

Some people who may not be able to stick out a all liquid diet may have success with a mixed bag....again assuming all calories are identical as that is the real factor.

[Mike ODonnell]

Also for those that did it.....what if any were the "rebound" effects from going back to normal eating? Did you gain the water weight back? Were you able to keep lean?

[Danny John]

Actually, I continued to get leaner AFTER the diet. Now, that was October/November....but it stayed off.