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Old 05-31-2009, 12:54 PM   #11
Garrett Smith
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I'm finding planned mild overreaching and then recovery is the best thing to ever happen to my training.
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Old 05-31-2009, 01:17 PM   #12
Frank Needham
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Originally Posted by Garrett Smith View Post
I'm finding planned mild overreaching and then recovery is the best thing to ever happen to my training.
I think I've been doing this unintentionally through ignorance and learning to cope with it since I began training again 3 years ago.
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Old 05-31-2009, 05:15 PM   #13
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I'm beginning to think it's more a matter of CNS overload rather than muscle fatigue. Especially for anyone who does olympic weightlifting or powerlifting type training regularly. I've had lots of trouble sleeping for more than 6 hours straight and it's probably due to all the o'lifts I do. But if overtraining is more so related to CNS fatigue, is rest the only means of recovery in that sense?
Overreaching/overtraining was never muscle fatigue. It's always a function of the CNS.

The only cases where you get muscular overload are cases of lots of edema/swelling in the area with pain up to rhabdomyolysis. Muscles have a GREAT blood supply so they heal rather quickly.. compared to stuff like CNS, bone, ligaments, tendons, etc. Cardiovascular system obviously gets a better blood supply than the muscles so it heals faster than muscles.

Best way to tell significant overreaching is with something like the tap tests, or decreasing max vertical leap, or your weights are starting to drop off 5-10% from your lifts.

If your lifts ever drop below 10% of your current then you're in a pretty bad overreaching state. If you push beyond that you're probably going to have to take more than a week to recover, and your CNS will be so depressed that you won't get a supercompensation effect greater than your previous maximum which means you just wasted all that time training for a setback.

Mild overreaching is generally good as you get the supercompensation back up over your previous max. But too much, and you set yourself back in training for weeks/months possibly years at a time.
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Old 06-02-2009, 10:19 AM   #14
Matthieu Hertilus
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Couldn't adaptogens help the body adapt to the stress put on by increased training? I know its always best not to resort to supplements and stick to sound training, nutrition, and rest, but I' just wanted to bring it up as a point of discussion. Technically, it could help reduce symptoms of overtraining right?
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Old 06-02-2009, 10:53 AM   #15
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Uh, well, yeah.

Anytime you can improve recovery options you can do more without putting yourself into a huge overreaching state...

more sleep, eat more, eat quality foods, lower stress at work, supplements that actually work for YOU, etc.
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Old 06-03-2009, 12:43 PM   #16
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I had to take 6 months off training due to overtraining syndrome. One year later i still suffer from its effects.

Listen to your body.
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Old 06-03-2009, 12:58 PM   #17
Garrett Smith
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Originally Posted by Matthieu Hertilus View Post
Couldn't adaptogens help the body adapt to the stress put on by increased training? I know its always best not to resort to supplements and stick to sound training, nutrition, and rest, but I' just wanted to bring it up as a point of discussion. Technically, it could help reduce symptoms of overtraining right?
Adaptogens help the body to deal with stressors.

Adaptogens are not very effective in repairing/recovering from damage already incurred by stressors.

So, it will reduce the symptoms, yes. It will not fix the cause, however.
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:17 PM   #18
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Adaptogens help the body to deal with stressors.

Adaptogens are not very effective in repairing/recovering from damage already incurred by stressors.

So, it will reduce the symptoms, yes. It will not fix the cause, however.
Sorry, I didn't fully understand that point. Could you elaborate? Maybe with an example?
For example, let's say a person finds themselves fatigued when they lift, but if they take a caffeine supplement they're able to go at their normal pace. Is this what you mean by reducing the symptoms and not fixing the cause? Wouldn't the person still be able to perform at a high level provided that caffeine or adaptogens help them get to that point? This may be borederline dependence but again, just bringing this up for discussion
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Old 06-03-2009, 01:51 PM   #19
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Sorry, I didn't fully understand that point. Could you elaborate? Maybe with an example?
For example, let's say a person finds themselves fatigued when they lift, but if they take a caffeine supplement they're able to go at their normal pace. Is this what you mean by reducing the symptoms and not fixing the cause? Wouldn't the person still be able to perform at a high level provided that caffeine or adaptogens help them get to that point? This may be borederline dependence but again, just bringing this up for discussion
Caffeine isn't really an adaptogen....

Read up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptogen
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Old 06-03-2009, 02:20 PM   #20
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Hopefully this analogy will help, as will reading the Wiki link on what adaptogenic herbs do.

Tires on a car = CNS, adrenals
Alignment (of tires) = training

If the alignment is such that the tires are wearing down excessively quickly in an abnormal pattern, then there is a problem. The cause is the misalignment. The wear pattern on the tires is a symptom.

By re-treading the same tires (using adaptogens, for example), we can reduce the symptom. However, this only means that we have given ourselves more time until the tires wear down in the same pattern as before, as the cause has not been addressed. One benefit to things like adaptogens is that their effects on the symptoms are often felt very quickly, which is good for the mental state (however, not so good if the person keeps doing what burned them out in the first place!)

Only by addressing the faulty alignment can we fix the cause. Adaptogens are not treating the cause, they only treat a symptom. In a "healthy" person, adaptogens help them to perform better than they might normally. In an "overtrained" person, adaptogens are only helping them to dig themselves a deeper hole. The deeper issues of what is hindering recovery is the cause(s) in this case.

Caffeine is a stimulant. To rely on a stimulant to fix dragging performance levels is like beating a dead horse. It only makes the problem worse.
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