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Old 06-13-2009, 07:29 AM   #1
Matthieu Hertilus
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Default Knee Inflammation

This is an issue I've been dealing with for a few weeks now and right when I'm on the cusp of my first competition I feel the need to keep training; however, I know inflammation and tendinitis in the knee can be a serious issue if not dealt with properly in the long run so I was hoping everyone could provide their input on the matter.

My knees have never really hurt during exercise (even during cleans, snatches, and squats), but I feel it for the rest of the day (particularly when I have to bend down at all like going down the stairs for instance). I've started taking fish oil, foam roll everyday, and use knee wraps and I was wondering if there was anything I could do to help the situation. I would understand if the best option is pure rest as a pre-med friend of mine has recommended to me but I was looking for any and all alternatives for dealing with the situation while continuing the O'Lifts to start and keep competiting. I do really want to fix the problem but I also love to lift, maybe I'm just being stubborn in this regard. Will respond later with an idea for a "rehab" program but I was hoping everyone could help me out with what I've written so far. Thank you in advance
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Old 06-13-2009, 10:00 AM   #2
Mike ODonnell
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Cut out grains, wheat, gluten and milk.....all possible inflammatory agents.
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Old 06-13-2009, 03:12 PM   #3
Dave Van Skike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthieu Hertilus View Post
This is an issue I've been dealing with for a few weeks now and right when I'm on the cusp of my first competition I feel the need to keep training; however, I know inflammation and tendinitis in the knee can be a serious issue if not dealt with properly in the long run so I was hoping everyone could provide their input on the matter.

My knees have never really hurt during exercise (even during cleans, snatches, and squats), but I feel it for the rest of the day (particularly when I have to bend down at all like going down the stairs for instance). I've started taking fish oil, foam roll everyday, and use knee wraps and I was wondering if there was anything I could do to help the situation. I would understand if the best option is pure rest as a pre-med friend of mine has recommended to me but I was looking for any and all alternatives for dealing with the situation while continuing the O'Lifts to start and keep competiting. I do really want to fix the problem but I also love to lift, maybe I'm just being stubborn in this regard. Will respond later with an idea for a "rehab" program but I was hoping everyone could help me out with what I've written so far. Thank you in advance
like the Wu Tang Clan, knee pain is NTFW.

I've got a bunch of ideas like, TKE's foam rolling, back down the weights, work hip mobility etc. None of this is worth as much as a session with a good sports medicine doc.

Cautionary tale. in 1999 I had knee pain that started as a small itch, I rode through it and trained 6 days a week. by 2001 I was basically crippled, by 2004 I'd had two knee surgeries, virtually zero articular cartilage and was rehabbing with a 24k kb and walking the dog. By 2007 I was back to squatting consistently and by the end of 2009, I might just barely get to a 500x5 pound back squat, which is baseline for a competive masters powerlifter or SM.

Do not drop a ball that takes ten years to pick back up.
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Old 06-13-2009, 09:28 PM   #4
Matthieu Hertilus
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I definitely want to take care of this even if it means holding off from competing. I was thinking of:
cutting out all squats, cleans, and snatches...maybe substituting them for good mournings and RDLs, along with kettlebell swings/cleans/ and snatches
increase: foam roll, hip mobility, fish oil intake, and cryotherapy
MAYBE do some bodyweight squats and lunges in time

how's this for a start?
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Old 06-13-2009, 09:37 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Matthieu Hertilus View Post
I definitely want to take care of this even if it means holding off from competing. I was thinking of:
cutting out all squats, cleans, and snatches...maybe substituting them for good mournings and RDLs, along with kettlebell swings/cleans/ and snatches
increase: foam roll, hip mobility, fish oil intake, and cryotherapy
MAYBE do some bodyweight squats and lunges in time

how's this for a start?
Put DOCTOR at the front of that list and you're doing great. A Doc is not going to fix it in one visit but they will provide some much needed adult supervision.
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Old 06-14-2009, 10:50 AM   #6
Matthieu Hertilus
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I've talked to a doctor who mentioned many of the same things we've discussed (lay off the intensity, ice it, anti-inflammatory medication, etc.). I was hoping however to get some opinions on bodyweight squats and lunges, whether anyone has had the same problem or not. Any thoughts on whether that would aggravate the condition if I lay off squats, o'lifts, and full deadlifts? Even very high repetitions?
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Old 06-14-2009, 11:07 AM   #7
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If it is still hurting after your workout, then whatever you decided to do, it was too much or not right for your knee at this time.

Remember that "endorphin" means "(endo-)genous m(-orphin-)e". Your body makes it during workouts as a painkiller, it then wears off, then you're left with the pain (which was there the whole time, you just couldn't feel it).

B12 intramuscular injections are a good thing to try for tendonitises, they were used a lot in the 40s/50s (PubMed has the studies)...you'll likely need to find an ND or an alternative doctor for these, it can be tough to pull them out of MDs. Sublingual or saying you don't think you have a B12 deficiency doesn't work...you'd need to try at least three shots within a week's time.

Good luck.
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Old 06-14-2009, 11:17 AM   #8
Dave Van Skike
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Originally Posted by Matthieu Hertilus View Post
I've talked to a doctor who mentioned many of the same things we've discussed (lay off the intensity, ice it, anti-inflammatory medication, etc.). I was hoping however to get some opinions on bodyweight squats and lunges, whether anyone has had the same problem or not. Any thoughts on whether that would aggravate the condition if I lay off squats, o'lifts, and full deadlifts? Even very high repetitions?
ok.
first, BW squats maybe. lunges no.

Here's what i would do. though my knees are well rehabbed, they do get tweaky about every 2-3 months. at the first sign of inflammation here's my drill.
  • Ibuprofen carpet bomb. Greg E suggested this for my shoulder once and it worked a charm. standard dosage, 1600mg min. go after it for 2-3 days MAX. this is a hit it and get out sort of thing.
  • hip mobility and passive stretching..pay attention ankle and hips. if a joint hurts, i always look to the muscles surrounding the joint above and below it.
  • zero "squatting" ...I'll do wide stance box squats movements with minimal weight off a medium to high box for higher reps, in place of a squat day. gradually working the box down until it can be done pain free. i ditch the oly shoes for these.
  • Terminal Knee Extensions (TKE's) throughout the day..very very oftern is key. think 500 reps per day each leg MINIMUM with a small band.
  • single leg DL, use KB and work up to a bar. but two dumbells or kb's usually work fine.
  • High rep RDL's at first. if they don't hurt, I'll feel free to go heavy but monitor the pain after.
  • When the inflammation is totally gone, I'll start back to squatting light but still to a box, gradually working back to normal stance.
  • Once I feel good here, then I'll front squat light..Once I'm able to front squat to medium weights consistenly w/o irritation, I'm good.
total time from f'ed up knee to being ready to train again is usually about 2-3 weeks. this tends to disrupt progress but i'll take a crummy squat over not being able to walk right.

Depending on your knee health, less or more time.YMMV.
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Old 06-14-2009, 11:48 AM   #9
Matthieu Hertilus
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Wow, that's some awesome info Dave. Much appreciated.
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Old 06-14-2009, 03:33 PM   #10
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Repetitive stress problems caused tendinitis to both of my knees. Extreme pain in both of them to the point that it seemed as if I'd be immobile. Desperation more than anything made me try several things with no success till I began sitting down in a deep squat and staying there. It took me a while because of the pain but eventually I would squat and sit there for 20 minutes at a stretch. I also sat on my feet with the soles upward and arched my back to the floor for similar periods of time. These two stretches seemed to break up the inflammation very well. It almost seemed at times I could feel it dissipating. This was the only thing I did for quite some time until the knees felt right again. Sorry I don't have the technical terms but all I can say is try it and see.
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