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Old 01-21-2009, 05:41 PM   #11
Steven Low
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My rings hang about midway between the floor of my garage and the 8 foot ceiling. Better to do the skin-the-cats and tuck at the bottom than to not do them at all.
I agree.

Tight shoulders = blah. Have been neglecting mine.
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Old 01-21-2009, 10:25 PM   #12
Grissim Connery
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I've been holding off on the back lever until I achieve the front lever, and I don't really have much time or ability to add in anything more right now. I will try adding in some German hangs and maybe some skin the cats to my warmup. I have limited space, so I may only be able to do the skin the cats in the tuck version.

I've been neglecting to stretch the shoulders in the manner of flexibility that's required for the German hangs. Maybe that's part of the problem. There always seems to be more bases to cover...
recently i've been focusing more on statics than anything else. i've been opting to cut out other crap that fills my workouts just to get these more perfected. it seems like a basic scenario of building a foundation IMO. for example, i'd really like to put some full planche pushups in my workout. i kinda need a full planche to accomplish this.

i'm not O-lifting right now just to give more time to gymnastics work. the only real weights i'm using at the moment are kettlebells for metcons and juggling. from BJJ i always take the stance that "how am i gonna move the other guy if i can't move myself in the first place?" i take the same stance with workouts. "how am i gonna move a ton of weight when i can't move my own body in the first place?" why would you try squat a huge weight with your ass to the floor when you can't squat your ass to the floor without a weight? whether this applies to flexibility or max effort static strength, it just seems necessary to me to give these factors precedence. then we can add the fun fluff of a metcon with ice cream makers followed by a C&J.
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Old 01-22-2009, 12:06 AM   #13
Blair Lowe
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We always train back lever before front lever. It has a lot more to do with training various other things for the future. Front lever is relatively easy to train with the right strength.
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:21 AM   #14
Donald Lee
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We always train back lever before front lever. It has a lot more to do with training various other things for the future. Front lever is relatively easy to train with the right strength.
Since the back lever is easier than the front lever, I probably should have trained that first or in concert with the front lever.

Grissim,

I was thinking of going more towards the other approach, eliminating a lot of time spent training the statics and focusing more on the dynamic strength. I think I'll just eliminate the OL for now. I was working light weights and really low reps with the OL just for technical proficiency, but it's probably too time consuming.
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:18 PM   #15
Blair Lowe
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but Oly is so fun!

BL is concert with FL is fine for adults. For little guys we work extending to the tuck front or back lever from a skin the cat or doing the negative from the inverted tuck or candle position.
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Old 09-24-2009, 12:32 PM   #16
Troy Kerr
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I would suggest throwing in some overhead pressing to balance out the shoulder strength. The planche is basically a 'super' bench press. The bench press hits the anterior portion of the shoulder. Mark Rippetoes starting strength book suggest balancing bench pressing & overhead pressing every other workout to avoid strength imbalances..i.e shoulder pain.
I follow this approach with my gymnastics training and have experiancedlittle to no shoulder pain. Hope this helps.
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Old 09-24-2009, 08:35 PM   #17
Donald Lee
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I would suggest throwing in some overhead pressing to balance out the shoulder strength. The planche is basically a 'super' bench press. The bench press hits the anterior portion of the shoulder. Mark Rippetoes starting strength book suggest balancing bench pressing & overhead pressing every other workout to avoid strength imbalances..i.e shoulder pain.
I follow this approach with my gymnastics training and have experiancedlittle to no shoulder pain. Hope this helps.
Recently, I tried supersetting back lever work with ring dips, which turned into a total disaster. My chest and anterior deltoids would get overworked. Whenever I overwork the shoulders through shoulder presses, dips, etc., my anterior deltoid areas seem to become irritated. I'm thinking that it's either an issue with a lack of ROM in internal rotation or a lack of flexibility in the German hang position. I have been doing a lot of stretching of the shoulders, but I'm holding off on the German hang-type stretch until I get adequate internal rotation. There's just not enough time for all these stretches.

Anyways, I don't have any pain from training the planche anymore. I'm pretty sure the previous problems came from the Bulgarian dips.

BTW. I try to balance out the anterior shoulder work with stuff like rows and back lever. I think the anterior shoulder pain is just flexibility-related.
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Old 09-25-2009, 01:40 AM   #18
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I don't have my GB materials handy, but wouldn't it make sense to just take a step back from the bulgarian dips. I can't remember what was before them. Maybe it was just a ring dip or some other russian, korean, etc dip. I can't even remember if bulgarian dips were after or before regular ring dips.

typically, I'll pair dipping(it rotates overhead, horizontal and dipping though i guess dipping is somewhere between) with planche work which is before the BL and with ample rest so it's all good.
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Old 09-25-2009, 10:54 AM   #19
Donald Lee
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I don't have my GB materials handy, but wouldn't it make sense to just take a step back from the bulgarian dips. I can't remember what was before them. Maybe it was just a ring dip or some other russian, korean, etc dip. I can't even remember if bulgarian dips were after or before regular ring dips.

typically, I'll pair dipping(it rotates overhead, horizontal and dipping though i guess dipping is somewhere between) with planche work which is before the BL and with ample rest so it's all good.
I think ring dips came right before bulgarian dips. I didn't do the parallel bar korean dips or any of that other parallel bar stuff, but I probably should have just to get used to the extreme ROM. Weighted parallel bar dips don't seem to give me much problems, but sometimes weighted ring dips do cause some shoulder irritation.

I may have to start stretching in the German hang position. My internal rotation in my left shoulder is pretty good now, but my right shoulder is very stiff for some reason. For that German hang stretch, whether on the rings or just on the ground, do you guys do it with hands in different positions?
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Old 09-25-2009, 12:56 PM   #20
Garrett Smith
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Do German hangs with your hands in whatever position they want to go to...that's the benefit of rings.

Internally rotating the shoulders creates impingement situations, are you purposely trying to internally rotate in the German hang? If so, I'd say stop doing that.

Bulgarian dips internally rotate the shoulder a lot. That obviously bothers you.

I would tend to be externally rotated in a German hang, or the more common "stretching" exercise equivalent of reaching behind to grab a bar at shoulder height (both arms behind the body) and squatting down to stretch the front of the shoulder/chest. This is typically done with palms facing the ground, and that's putting the shoulders in *external* rotation, opening the chest, freeing up the shoulder joint. Doing that same move with the palms up (like I think you're basically trying to do) puts the shoulders in internal rotation, closes the chest, and puts the shoulders in a great position for impingement.

I hope this makes sense. Let your shoulders go where they want to in the German hang is the take-home message, I guess...

I'm guessing that you allow the rings to turn in on ring dips, thus aggravating your internal rotation issue. The reason why p-bar dips likely don't aggravate your shoulder is because, besides the added stability, you are not "allowed" to internally rotate your shoulder as much due to the bars.
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