Home   |   Contact   |   Help

Get Our Newsletter
Sign up for our free newsletter to get training tips and stay up to date on Catalyst Athletics, and get a FREE issue of the Performance Menu journal.

Go Back   Catalyst Athletics Forums > Training > Olympic Weightlifting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-15-2009, 06:18 AM   #11
Garrett Smith
Senior Member
 
Garrett Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 4,368
Default

Michael,
I'm trying to keep some pulls in my plan as I was hoping the extra pulling from the floor would indirectly help my deadlift improve without training it (see Matt Foreman's article in the PMenu on this).

I train several different approaches at once (mixing PL, OL, gymnastics, and I'm even doing a Highland Games in 3 weeks for fun), so I need the most bang for my buck. After my meet this weekend, the PL is falling by the wayside for a long time so that I can emphasize OL more for a good 6-8 months.
__________________
Garrett Smith NMD CSCS BS, aka "Dr. G"
RepairRecoverRestore.com - Blood, Saliva, and Stool Testing
My radio show - The Path to Strength and Health
Garrett Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2009, 07:15 AM   #12
Martin Bonn
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 210
Default

i d still go with snatch pulls i think.
snatch is more technique dependent, therefore you would need more drills in that movement than in the clean.
i lliked the 1 week clean pulls, 1 week snatch pulls idea as well
__________________
Stats: 26yrs, 6'1'', 98.0kg
Snatch: 103kg
Clean & Jerk: 124kg
TOTAL: 227kg

__________________________________________
Log

Youtube
Martin Bonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2009, 07:19 AM   #13
Martin Bonn
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 210
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omar Omar View Post
A question for all those who can help.

I dont meant to hijack this thread but the opportunity to ask presents it self after Brian's question...

Are CrossFit WODS Randy and Grace simply met-cons that are useless when it comes to devoloping power.

For those of you who dont know them

Grace
30 C@J of 135 pounds for time (takes elite athletes 2-4 minutes for 30 reps)

Randy
75 reps of 75 pounds snatch (takes 4 minutes too)

Are the simple endurance Wods that have no contribution whatsoever to power, or strentgh...
i don t think that you ll develop much strength from that unless you are a beginner. the weight is too light and the reps are too high.

i d defo not do them if i was doing oly lifting as my main sport: the weight is too light to enforce a good bar path, and technique goes out the window. so if anything you ll get a negative carry-over.
i ve never seen anyone do either of these WODs with oly-acceptable form.
this is not to say they aren t good conditioning tools though.
__________________
Stats: 26yrs, 6'1'', 98.0kg
Snatch: 103kg
Clean & Jerk: 124kg
TOTAL: 227kg

__________________________________________
Log

Youtube
Martin Bonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2009, 08:48 AM   #14
Michael McKenna
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Central, PA
Posts: 100
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett Smith View Post
Michael,
I'm trying to keep some pulls in my plan as I was hoping the extra pulling from the floor would indirectly help my deadlift improve without training it (see Matt Foreman's article in the PMenu on this).

I train several different approaches at once (mixing PL, OL, gymnastics, and I'm even doing a Highland Games in 3 weeks for fun), so I need the most bang for my buck. After my meet this weekend, the PL is falling by the wayside for a long time so that I can emphasize OL more for a good 6-8 months.
I've read Matt's article, and it's good stuff. I think the best thing for throwing, though, is heavy cleans and good mornings. Steve Pulcinella does a nice job with a specialized "Highland Games" explosive good morning. The video is out there somwhere, I think on youtube. Steve can be reached at www.ironsport.com.

Deadlifts will improve with heavy pulls, but always make sure the pulls are fast, fast, fast. Always speeding up and accelerating throughout the movement, not a "deadlift with a shrug". I actually think that snatch pulls from the ground are good as they're lighter, and clean pulls from blocks are better. Your lower back, especially if you're training for PL or OLY Lifting, will get tons of work. Protect it.

I don't consider pulls technical, although they can be used to improve positions and for a beginner to learn the pattern of movement. if you've been training for a long time, and you need the pull for technical support, then skip the pull entirely and add more power snatches to yoru workout. You'll become much better technically. Rememebr, the only difference between a power snatch and squat snatch is where you catch the weight. even with lighter pulls, the technical difference between a pull and a snatch, especially, is vast.


Don't use pulls to get better at the lifts, use pulls to get stronger/ faster/ more explosive; those thigns will carryover to the lifts, thereby making you better. Anything else is a waste of time, in my opinion. But for throwers, I use pulls more often than for a straight up lifter.

I see pulls for strength and more "explosion", training with a weight that's heavier than your best snatch or clean. What should that weight be? Well, it depends on the pull. I like the 10% adage, but remember, it's not 10% of weight, it's 10% of technique and performance. I'd do clean pulls from high blocks up to 270 kg when I was cleaning 175-180, and the speed was close, within that 10%. But doing 270 from the ground was slow. Also, the extra low back fatigue hurt my cleans. So my pulls fall into this pattern:

One style of pulls from the floor, one from another position. Three to four weeks with each pulling style.

For example: Snatch pulls from the floor, 1x5 w/ 70%, 1x3 w 80%, 2x2 w 90%, 3x1 w 100%011% of my snatch. Sometimes the movement from the floor will have me pause below the knee, then at the knee, then above the knee, then finish.



That same cycle my clean pulls would be from the high blocks, usually then MUCH heavier than my clean (150% or so top end). Your second pull can never be too powerful.

I do more rdls and good mornings, too, this split.

Another split I use is Snatch grip deads, or snatch starts to the knee. These go up heavy- SN GR DL go to 160-180 kg when I sn 130+; these days usually 140-160 as I'm snatching around 120. I'll pair these with lighter clean pulls through the full range of motion with a pronounced POP at the end. I'll do more good mornings or heavier RDLs this cycle.

Sometimes, I do higher rep snatch starts- 2 sets of 8 or 10 with 100% or so of my snatch. But remember, I'm a super (105+), and I'm used to high volume routines and I can afford muscle mass gains.

I also like muscle snatches in place of snatch pulls sometimes.

This is all for lifting training.
Michael McKenna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2009, 09:48 AM   #15
Martin Bonn
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 210
Default

i like your reasoning Michael!
i am more at the beginner range so for me the pulls are technical and not just about getting stronger, but i can see that just doing heavy clean pulls can have its benefits if used at the right stage of the athlete's development.
__________________
Stats: 26yrs, 6'1'', 98.0kg
Snatch: 103kg
Clean & Jerk: 124kg
TOTAL: 227kg

__________________________________________
Log

Youtube
Martin Bonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2009, 01:04 AM   #16
Blair Lowe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 593
Default

Dr. G, when I had limited time to Oly, I simply alternated either pulling position each workout.
Blair Lowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:56 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Subscribe to our Newsletter


Receive emails with training tips, news updates, events info, sale notifications and more.
ASK GREG

Submit your question to be answered by Greg Everett in the Performance Menu or on the website

Submit Your Question
WEIGHTLIFTING TEAM

Catalyst Athletics is a USA Weightlifting team of competitive Olympic-style weightlifters with multiple national team medals.

Read More
Olympic Weightlifting Book
Catalyst Athletics
Contact Us
About
Help
Newsletter
Products & Services
Gym
Store
Seminars
Weightlifting Team
Performance Menu
Magazine Home
Subscriber Login
Issues
Articles
Workouts
About the Program
Workout Archives
Exercise Demos
Text Only
Instructional Content
Exercise Demos
Video Gallery
Free Articles
Free Recipes
Resources
Recommended Books & DVDs
Olympic Weightlifting Guide
Discussion Forum
Weight Conversion Calculator