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Old 12-06-2009, 06:31 PM   #1
Brian Merklin
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Default IF and GOMAD

Yeah, I know. Sounds stupid.

This is more out of curiosity, but I really was wondering if anyone here has heard of or tried combining these two. As someone who is always working to gain mass but fighting a constant battle with an inherently lazy side, this concept really appeals to me.

Anyway, any opinions on if it would be possible to put on mass with IF + GOMAD?

Please forgive me if this is in the wrong area. I wasn't sure if it should go under Diet or Mass Gain.

Cheers to all,

Brian
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Old 12-06-2009, 07:07 PM   #2
Steven Low
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If you're not allergic to milk.... sure.

The gist of IF is to dial EVERYTHING else in before you go to IF.
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Old 12-06-2009, 07:14 PM   #3
Brian Merklin
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Right, right. Like I said, more just a curiosity thing. Thanks for the reply, though.
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Old 12-06-2009, 08:31 PM   #4
Arien Malec
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Take a look at what Martin Berkhan is doing at www.leangains.com

The basic idea is IF + low carb + submaintenance during non workout days, and IF + higher carb + higher calories during workout days, consumed mostly postworkout.

Downing a gallon of milk postworkout might fit the bill.
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Old 12-06-2009, 08:34 PM   #5
Derek Weaver
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Of course you can grow on a gallon of milk/day with IF. IF has nothing to do with it. Progressive overload and a surplus of calories leads to mass gains. The only issue is whether or not you can stuff enough calories down during your eating window.
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Old 12-07-2009, 07:43 AM   #6
Mike ODonnell
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Brain, actually not a stupid question at all....in fact a very good one.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Weaver View Post
Of course you can grow on a gallon of milk/day with IF. IF has nothing to do with it. Progressive overload and a surplus of calories leads to mass gains. The only issue is whether or not you can stuff enough calories down during your eating window.
Derek is too smart...leaves me nothing to chime in with as he nailed it....but I'll try....(inhale and here I go)

GOMAD is just a simple (and effective) way to get in more calories (that are a great source of slower digesting proteins) over a whole day. Of course you also eat real foods during the day as well.

Strongmen of yesterdays would eat 2-3x a day and drink a ton of raw milk.

Why you do IF is another question (health? don't like eating all day?). You don't need to eat all day long to get in calories....nor is there any magic to timing them especially pwo unless you are some competitive athlete who needs glycogen replenishment for more activity in the next 12 hours.

You can either just eat whenever during a condensed eating window and it can vary by day as well (only do IF on non-lifting days?). If you want more of the "health" reasons then I would say a longer fasts less often is more along the lines of what is needed to generate the right stressful environment to the body.

Personally I have been experimenting with 1/2 gallon whole milk a day 3x/week and have a schedule like thus:
- M-W-F - Lift (usually mid afternoon), no real IF plans but usually just start eating whenever to whenever (usually 11am-8pm). These are the days I drink 1/2 gallon whole milk as well. Nothing magic here, just a window to eat in that is all.
- Sun-T-Th - IF planned day with AM fasted "cardio" (walking) for 45min. Eat in a smaller window such as from 3pm-8pm with more protein pulsed in less meals. No milk on these days.
- Sat - Whatever I feel like....and lets me go out Sat night and eat/drink up

No magic to ratios of macronutrients from food (sorry Dr Sears), no worry about post workout windows (I just eat at some point anyways after a workout), no real carb cycling but I do keep carbs to whole foods and don't overdo it in one sitting, protein is some what consistent and 1/2 gallon of milk is drank on lifting days only. I give myself a day off milk but still eat a ton of protein from real foods on IF days....like 100+g protein from the steak/chicken buffet at one sitting.

I've always thought I had bad experiences with milk in the past, but now with it on alternating days and only drinking whole milk.....so far, so good. Starting to think maybe the issues in the past (mucus, sinusitis, acne) were with me drinking all skim milk everyday. I may up to a gallon a milk 3x a week on non-IF days just to see what happens.

So far, it is working well....I am losing fat where I want to (stubborn areas) and have gained a few lean muscle lbs at the same time (as I am actually up in weight). Slow and steady seems to work just fine for me.

IF also has an interesting body composition saving feature (as you see with all the studies compared to CR who lose mass). So the alternating days with less overall calories (but still enough protein) along with bigger calorie days mixed in seems to be working. So far this looks like a more ideal long term gaining strategy while keeping fat gains minimal.

As for downing a gallon of milk post workout...I bet that leads to more fat than muscle over time....and I would love to watch a person actually try that without puking.

(Whew....apparently I did have alot to say....man I am a windbag)
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Old 12-07-2009, 08:38 AM   #7
Arien Malec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike ODonnell View Post
As for downing a gallon of milk post workout...I bet that leads to more fat than muscle over time....and I would love to watch a person actually try that without puking.
I meant, but did not write, in the 3-5 hr eating period after workout. A gallon in single sitting postworkout would be vomit inducing to be sure.
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Old 12-07-2009, 10:40 PM   #8
Derek Weaver
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Nice contribution to the thread MOD. I was actually hoping you'd jump in on this one.

Sorry if my tone may have been a bit harsh. I was in a different kind of recovery mode.

Mike. What you're doing is more along the lines of Lean Gains but without the calorie counting that I think Martin prefers, right?

I've actually been thinking of doing something like this as I'm trying to put some weight on, but want to keep it in check and give my gut a rest. I've been doing very little fasting and could use a break from food once in a while. You may be on to something.
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Old 12-08-2009, 08:58 AM   #9
Mike ODonnell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Weaver View Post
Nice contribution to the thread MOD. I was actually hoping you'd jump in on this one.

Sorry if my tone may have been a bit harsh. I was in a different kind of recovery mode.

Mike. What you're doing is more along the lines of Lean Gains but without the calorie counting that I think Martin prefers, right?

I've actually been thinking of doing something like this as I'm trying to put some weight on, but want to keep it in check and give my gut a rest. I've been doing very little fasting and could use a break from food once in a while. You may be on to something.
Me not chime in with an IF thread? Even in a Guinness stupor I would slur something out....lol. I didn't see any harshness above.

Yes it is a bit similar to Martin's outline although I don't really concern myself with specific eating windows or calories on M-W-F. Those are high calorie (and milk) days. The real IF days are S-T-Th with focus on lower calorie intake (usually lower fat/carbs and higher protein) in a shorter window. Also I don't do any pwo special eating/cycling, just keep it consistent through out the day and throw a workout in the middle somewhere.

It's almost like putting Eat-Stop-Eat and Leangains in a blender....what you may get out of it.

If you look at all the IF vs CR studies they are always more the alternate day setup, and the IF group always maintains (mostly lean) bodyweight, where CR loses muscle mass. So the window on high calorie days is not really that important (and may need to be bigger to allow more calories).

Making it a M-W-F (eat and workout) and S-T-Th (IF) schedule is just simple for me to keep workouts on those days consistent weekly and just IF around them...but I am sure there is more than one way to skin the cat.

I also am doing mainly one big meal of higher protein (75% of daily goal in one sitting with smaller amounts around it) on the non-workout/recovery/IF days to personally test the theory of protein pulsing in regards to 24 hr protein synthesis total (as some studies show no difference in net 24hr protein synthesis between spreading out the meals and pulsing them in a big meal if the total is the same). Since this is on "recovery" days, it really doesn't play into any issues about muscle catabolism around workouts (as anything done on these days are low intensity).

As far as a mass gain approach, this makes more sense to me and keeps me sane. Granted I am not a BB by any means (nor do I want to be), but for a healthy (and happy) way to put on lbs....this seems more ideal.

I like this tid bit from this article on weston price about bodybuilding nutrition throughout the years
Quote:
Strongfort suggested eating only two meals a day, a strategy shared by Macfadden that would re-emerge in the 60s and 70s. Strongfort and Macfadden both advised against overconsumption of food. They claimed overconsumption created a negative stress on the body’s systems, sensible advice that bodybuilding publications would ignore in the coming years.
Building muscle is a whole body process....makes sense the more the body is happy, the better it can do its job. Using longer IF to improve insulin levels, reduce inflammation (esp from any food allergies) and clean up the digestive system.....sounds like a good plan.

I also find it interesting as the previous poster child for not dealing with milk well.....right now with the way it is setup, I'm doing ok.
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:12 PM   #10
Derek Weaver
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Good stuff MOD. Looks entirely doable, allows enough flexibility to live your life on the weekends and should help to keep progress steady but not turn into a lard ass.

I'm solid on my workouts but always flexible to see how I do diet wise.
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