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Old 12-07-2009, 07:30 PM   #21
Grissim Connery
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Also if you were wondering, I would be doing 3-4 days a week MMA technique except I can't afford to join an MMA gym. So I get freebies from my old MMA coach plus 2-3 quality sparring partners. I can count on them for usually one to two workouts per week.
ouch. i know what that's like though. i used to live somewhere where monthly starting fees were $180/month, and that wasn't even for every class. now i train somewhere where it's $75/month for 5days a week, ~3hour of mat time. most of my college friends think that's steep, but i try to assure them that it's a damn good deal compared to other places.

sorry you were askin for a monday workout and it's almost the end of monday, but it's finals now and i got a structural biochem exam tomorrow.

do you want a road work type workout? personally when i'm doing one of these type of workouts, i mix together jump roping, sledge hammer+tire, KB's, pullups and pushups. i try to keep it as basic as possible because i don't want to stress out my CNS with complex forms during a long lasting endeavor.

it's kinda like what i read muhammad ali did. generally i stick to the jumprope for most of the time. once i feel like i have a good amount of wind and energy, i'll do one of the other exercises. i don't go balls out interval style. i try to keep decent form, and go until i feel the very beginnings of dragging, or when my form begins to deteriorate. if i get a little too tired and i start catching the jump rope on my feet too much, i'll switch to wall ball with a 10# ball and a ~10 foot high spot. this generally helps me recover for more jump roping.

i try to feel a flow/pace during this endeavor, and i try not to break it. it's not crossfit intense, it's not boring, but it's kinda envigorating (kinda like dancing maybe?). i try to make it feel how an actual competition feels when you're trying to conserve energy. it's that feeling where you put forth proper effort when needed, but you don't ever (i'm gonna quote my instructor on this) "insist" on anything.

i generally do 15-20 minute sessions so that i don't cause much cortisol release. if i'm in the mood or "feeling it," i'll go longer. i find that you will mentally know when you need to stop.

right now my workouts are OL, gymnastics, conditioning (either above or a metcon). dunno if this helps, but i haven't had any strength or conditioning problems in BJJ for a long time now. if i get beaten, it's probably because the guy was better.
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:38 AM   #22
Derek Simonds
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Test your Resting Heart Rate in the morning soon after you wake up, while lying down, and let me know what it is.
68 for me at 39 years young. When I am not overtrained....
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:39 AM   #23
Brian Lawyer
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Test your Resting Heart Rate in the morning soon after you wake up, while lying down, and let me know what it is.
I recorded 70-75 this morning and middle of night. However, I missed the "while lying down" portion of your instructions. Once in middle of night was when I woke up to let the dogs out and go to the bathroom then I checked. Another time was after I had to step over a baby gate to turn on a light for my kid. So it's possible that is not an accurate resting heart rate. I will re-do tonight and remember to do it before I get out of bed.

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Originally Posted by Grissim Connery View Post
ouch. i know what that's like though. i used to live somewhere where monthly starting fees were $180/month, and that wasn't even for every class. now i train somewhere where it's $75/month for 5days a week, ~3hour of mat time. most of my college friends think that's steep, but i try to assure them that it's a damn good deal compared to other places.

sorry you were askin for a monday workout...
Most of the legit gyms in our area run $100 - $150 for all you can train. Besides having zero money to spend on my MMA hobby, it is also a time obligation thing. If I spent $75/month your damn sure I am going to at least 3 training sessions per week. I don't really have time for that. Luckily I have some old muscle memory from back in the day when I did train regularly and I know enough people in the MMA community that I can come up with some decent training partners.

I had my mind set that I was going to run some 400m yesterday after work but then my wife told me she had to work and I had to babysit...
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Old 12-08-2009, 09:57 AM   #24
Brian Lawyer
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68 for me at 39 years young. When I am not overtrained....
I think it is safe to use that number for me as well, except I am 30 years old. I seem to recall in my haze stumbling to the bathroom in the middle of the night reading my Polar watch and it was in the upper 60's.

So what's the prescription Donald...
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Old 12-08-2009, 01:01 PM   #25
Donald Lee
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68 for me at 39 years young. When I am not overtrained....
Derek, that is really high, even for your age.

Brian, your resting heart rate tends to be about 2-5 beats/min higher when you're seated.

Joel has said that MMA guys should have resting heart rates in the high 40's to low 50's. I've gotten down to about 49 or so, and it doesn't that much effort...at least to get it into the 50's.

Let me explain why resting heart rate matters.

Cardiac Output = Heart Rate x Stroke Volume

The more you eccentrically stretch your heart, the greater your stroke volume. This means more blood is pumped out per beat. If your heart pumps out more blood per beat, then it does not need to pump as often; hence, a lower heart rate tends to indicate a greater stroke volume. A greater stroke volume means a greater cardiac output in general. The more blood you pump out from your heart, the more oxygen is pumped to your muscles.

This only refers to one half of the aerobic equation-the heart, but the heart is very important to aerobic performance. Generally, if you're sucking wind, you need to work on your heart. If your muscles are fatiguing, you need to work on muscular endurance. That's a crude generalization, so don't take it too seriously.

Cardiac output work tends to work best in the 120-150 HR range. The lower end is for those who are unfit. Basically, you do cardio right above your aerobic threshold, which may be above 150. Unless you get lab tested, these figures are hard to figure out. I have approximated my maximal heart rate from some intense workouts. You add 5 to the highest heart rate you've recorded. And I've figured out my anaerobic threshold from timed runs. There are some calculators that are more accurate than others for figuring this stuff out, based on maximal heartrate.

Anyways, you can start out doing about 30 min/day 2-3 days/week of CO work in the 120-140 HR range. Then, increase volume, frequency, and/or intensity as needed for further adaptations. You can work up to 60 min/day. CO work may feel like it's doing nothing while you're doing it, but it helps tremendously in your fights. If you're not doing much MMA training, you should start off with 3 days/week. Otherwise, 2 days/week may be adequate to start, since MMA training tends to be somewhat aerobic already.

You should test your resting HR periodically to track your progress. If you don't have a heartrate monitor, CO work is basically LSD. It is not intense at all. It's just an extremely slow jog, or a semifast bike ride. You can go 5 beats/min lower when you're on a bike, since you're seated as opposed to standing. It's better to error on the lower end of intensity if you don't have a heartrate monitor, since you can monitor your resting heartrate and adjust the intensity accordingly. If you're unconditioned, your CO will increase with even light work. Plus, stroke volume tops off at about 60% of maximal heartrate.
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Old 12-08-2009, 01:11 PM   #26
Brian Lawyer
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Layman terms Donald...j/k. I think I get what you are saying and it sounds like you are suggesting 2-3 days a week of 30min+ in what I would refer to as my zone 1 heart rate. You are correct when you said that would not feel like I was doing much because I actually do a similar workout for recovery when I am feeling really run down. I rotate between a bike and elliptical for 30 minutes in zone 1 then do some stretching afterwards and that would be all I do for that day. It usually helps a lot with my soreness but I never thought of it as something that would help cardio conditioning.

This is definitly contrary to the Crossfit/Ross Training GPP type work I've been doing to try to increase my cardio. Are you suggesting to just tack this 30minutes at the end of a strength workout or MMA training day?
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Old 12-08-2009, 01:25 PM   #27
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You could do that, but if you do it after a strength workout, do it many hours later. A strength workout gives the heart the opposite signal-to thicken rather than to stretch. If you're going to do it after a strength workout, you'd have to do it more often. It's better to just do cardio on off days or MMA days, unless your MMA was already highly aerobic. It may be hard to maintain all your strength training days, if you're lifting like 4 days/week. I'd temporarily lower it to maintenace levels-either 2 or 3 days/week. Those with lower levels of strength can work aerobic and strength together, but with higher levels of strength, it may interfere with your heart adaptations. I'm sure your heart is already pretty thick from strength training and short CrossFit metcons, which will make it harder to stretch anyways.
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Old 12-08-2009, 01:30 PM   #28
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Strength is on hold and has been for about the last month or longer. I've been doing heavy squats and cleans maybe once per week in order to maintain and that is about it. I've got more strength than I can even use in the ring. If you haven't checked out the youtube on my training log, look at the October sparring session and you will see what I am talking about. I gave up about 30 seconds into round 2 because I literally had nothing left. It was an awful feeling!!
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Old 12-08-2009, 02:03 PM   #29
Brian Lawyer
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if you're lifting like 4 days/week. I'd temporarily lower it to maintenace levels-either 2 or 3 days/week. Those with lower levels of strength can work aerobic and strength together, but with higher levels of strength, it may interfere with your heart adaptations. I'm sure your heart is already pretty thick from strength training and short CrossFit metcons, which will make it harder to stretch anyways.
Here this should make it easier to lay out a program for me. Let's assume I am doing 1 day of MMA training and 2 days of strength training and I have roughly 4 days per week all together to train. I know Grissim would cringe at the thought of only 1 day a week of MMA training but let's face it I am a 30 year old CPA with family.

Strength days obviously consist of usually two exercises (squat, press, O'Lift) with 10min metcon at end.

MMA training day usually consists of 15 minutes of warmup that includes light sparring then several 3 minute intervals. We usually just set the timer for 3min on 1min rest. If I want to work gaurd escape, I will start in gaurd for a 3min round. If I want to work thai kicks I'll kick the pads for a 3 min round, etc. We just kind of drill through whatever we want to work on. Very informal.

So that is 3 days right there. So I could do a fourth day of 45 minutes in zone 1 hear rate or I could drop a strength day and two days of 45 minutes in zone 1.

Ideas...
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Old 12-08-2009, 02:15 PM   #30
Brian Lawyer
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...Anyways, you can start out doing about 30 min/day 2-3 days/week of CO work in the 120-140 HR range. Then, increase volume, frequency, and/or intensity as needed for further adaptations. You can work up to 60 min/day.
Donald, Is staying in zone 1 heart rate for 30-60min preferable over a 30minute jog. A 9min mile pace normally puts me in upper zone 2, if not lower zone 3, for 30minutes.
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