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Old 12-25-2009, 08:10 PM   #11
George Mounce
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I really suggest you go to www.robbwolf.com and listen to his podcasts. I have to agree with Robb that until you have every single part of your life dialed in...IF is a no no.
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Old 12-26-2009, 12:36 AM   #12
Matt Wil
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I take your point and yes I'd agree that unless othe areas of life are as good as they could be then something like IF may not be appropriate. For me personally, I believe I'm in a good place to do it. I know my motivations and reasons for, and where I'm going after so to speak. But thanks for the link also, good to get all aspects of this lifestyle from as many sources as possible.
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Old 12-26-2009, 05:27 AM   #13
Steve Shafley
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Martin, from Leangains, is the premier practitioner of IF for physique enhancement in the world right now. He's had success with a broad range of people, and drug free.

I don't agree with his training philosophies, which are very HITcentric, but his IF templates and his training does work for his clients.

At the very least, you should read up on his approach, which isn't all that complex.
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Old 12-26-2009, 09:22 AM   #14
Mike ODonnell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Mounce View Post
Until you have everything else dialed in, IF should be the last thing you do for health and wellness.
IF added into a person who is sleep deprived, eating crap and stressed out will be a complete disaster-crash and burn scenario. No doubt about that.

People still need to know how to eat the rest of the time, as IF is just a "tool" not a "diet" plan.

There is no real super magic in using IF more often other than just a condensed eating window to control calories. Used too often it can also backfire on someone especially if they are not eating enough (or their lifestyle is a mess, which is a HUGE factor in recovery terms).

When you talk about bodycomp goals then things like carb cycling and timing will matter, and not using IF to just binge on a big meal thinking it all goes into the muscle (esp carbs)...which it won't.

You can get many health benefits (the biggest 2 being low fasting insulin/lowered inflammation) just from eating real foods and exercise alone without needing IF....IF just makes it easier for some. If you really want the true health/longevity benefits of a IF approach when compared to CR studies, then we are talking more about the longer fasts and reduced calories on IF days...which is most likely not in tune with a person who is very active and wants to gain muscle.
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Old 12-26-2009, 04:00 PM   #15
Matt Wil
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Thanks for the replies. I've seen Martins' blog and have emailed him for further information so we'll see how that one goes.

Mike - so are you saying that I shouldn't consider IF as a viable option ?
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Old 12-27-2009, 08:57 AM   #16
Mike ODonnell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Wil View Post
Thanks for the replies. I've seen Martins' blog and have emailed him for further information so we'll see how that one goes.

Mike - so are you saying that I shouldn't consider IF as a viable option ?
He's probably busy and gets a ton of emails, so wouldn't necessarily expect a reply. The info on what he uses is out there (I think I gave the link to an article that explains it earlier) but it is simple approach:
- Eat 8 hours a day
- Mostly protein/fats/veggies/fruits etc
- Use PWO timeframe to eat more starchy carbs (and lower protein/fat)

As far as the workout and food, he suggests (as do I) that for weight training add in some basic BCAAs pre-workout. I like the "fasted"state to prime you for the anabolic response of the pwo window, but still for muscle building purposes you want some additional Amino Acids in the bloodstream. For cardio types of workouts it doesn't matter as much.

So you see even on that approach, quality of foods is stressed (aka eat Paleo-like) and you have more "leeway" in the PWO window. You will know if you are doing sloppy glycoen reloads PWO because you will see more fat (esp around the stubborn areas).

Or you could just eat all day long however you like and throw in 1-2 longer fasts (such as an Eat-Stop-Eat style) on your non-workout days.

I wouldn't suggest combining both, just pick a way that sounds good and see what happens. If it ain't working....change it up. Biggest factors will be getting enough calories, enough protein and not using sloppy carb reloads.
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Old 12-27-2009, 04:05 PM   #17
Matt Wil
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Thanks Mike, I've actually heard back from Martin just yesterday which was great

Ok, thanks for that info and yes you're correct there is a lot out there which I'm making my way through daily.

My issue will be that I work out later in the day, after work, and my work days are typically 8am-5pm, so I'd be working out 'mid' feeding window so my calories will be probably weighted more evenly around the workout rather than the bulk afterwards.

For my lifestyle, which is typically a busy one as I'm a single Dad as well, I think what may work well for me is fasting 16hrs from 8pm to midday the following day: Feeding window midday to 8pm. If things aren't moving there's opportunity to do a 24 hour fast noon sunday till noon Monday.

I've already toyed with the eating window this last few days, although during this period the foods haven't been ideal, I more wanted to see how my mental accuity and ability to function reacted and so far, not a blip on the radar. I start training again today (light bedding in for the following week's REAL beginnings) so it'll be interesting to see how that goes.

Thanks Mike, appreciate your input.
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Old 12-27-2009, 06:28 PM   #18
Matt Wil
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Found this post, sourced from bodybuildingforyou.com..and was sourced from another thread (unknown address)... what are people's thoughts on this?


Start quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly Baggett
Now for the really interesting part, the diet! The diet is divided up into 2 separate phases, the low calorie low/carbohydrate portion and the high calorie/high carb portion. Here are the guidelines:

Low calorie/low carb portion

Duration - All day on weight training off days and day on weight training days.
Caloric intake - 10-12 x bodyweight
Macronutrient ratio - 50% protein 30% fat and 20% carbohydrate
High calorie/high carb portion

Duration - on weight training days only. From the beginning of the weight training session until bedtime.
Caloric intake - The same amount as you would take in during a normal low calorie day but these calories are to be consumed in a time span of 6-8 hours. ( 10-12 x bw or 1600-1900 calories for a 160 lb individual)
Macronutrient ratio - 20% protein 5% fat and 75% carbohydrate
Maintenance calorie/carb portion

Duration - weekends
Caloric intake - 15 x bodyweight
Macronutrient ratio - 50% protein 30% fat and 20% carbohydrate
Daily Schedule

The weight training and preceding dieting phase not only burns fat but also puts the body into a glycogen depleted state which heightens insulin sensitivity so the body is ready to suck up on all the nutrients delivered during the short-term carbohydrate overfeed. In addition to increasing cellular hydration, which is important for protein synthesis, the body responds to this overfeeding by increasing levels of the anabolic hormone insulin.

Having high insulin levels ALL the time could be a bad thing and lead to fat gain, but for such a short period of time after an intense workout we're able to maximize the anabolic power of insulin for anabolism and muscle building with little danger of spillover into fat storage. Studies have shown that carbohydrates consumed during massive short-term carbohydrate overfeeding have a very small effect on de novo lipogenesis, or conversion to fat from carbohydate.

Also, during this time and after, the body will respond to this short-term overfeed with larger amounts of the hormones testosterone, thyroid, and leptin. Leptin is the hormone which normally drops during a diet and causes our fat loss efforts to reach a stand-still and causes our body to begin cannibalizing muscle tissue. By boosting leptin through over-feeding, we also ensure that our fat loss efforts continue unhindered throughout the plan while all the other hormones are optimized for muscle gain. Regular cardio is done earlier in the day not only to burn more calories and fat but, more importantly, to give a big metabolic stimulus throughout the day. Diet is optimized to allow fat burning during these times.

Likewise, the timing of the weight training sessions coincides with the time when the body would normally begin to go from an anabolic to a catabolic state. By doing our weight training and HIT in the afternoon/early evening we are able to boost anabolic hormones and sensitivity to these hormones at a time when they naturally begin to decline while also stimulating the metabolism at a time when it begins to slow down. Following the weight-training workout with a high carbohydrate overfeed gives solid, round the clock hormonal and dietary management of both muscle gain and fat loss

End Quote.
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Old 12-27-2009, 06:38 PM   #19
Mike ODonnell
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Don't get paralysis by analysis. Everything you quoted has already been said in some shape or form in this thread. Turn off the computer, pick a plan and stick it out for at least 6-12 weeks.
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Old 12-28-2009, 12:57 AM   #20
Matt Wil
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Thanks Mike.

One thing i've noticed on 'day one' with the high carb meal after training is a considerable elevation in bodytemp.. metabolism is cranking along!
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