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Old 10-24-2009, 05:49 AM   #11
Greg Davis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Johnson View Post
To me your diet looks like it lacks a thousand or two calories from starch.*

*or with nothing to replace it if you have something against starch.
If I had to guess I am eating ~30-50 g CHO at breakfast and lunch (each) from fruit and veggies.. lunches always include a salad that includes some sort of starch like beets, carrots, tubers, etc.. I'm probably in the 150g CHO range daily average .. and around 3000k cals
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Old 12-24-2009, 11:36 AM   #12
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Update:

No luck on doctor's end for what might be causing the sleep issues. Why iron is low is a puzzle too.

Still taking some iron supplements and will have that retested in the new year. Sleep issue still largely the same, except I've made some progress of late.

Although I'm still pretty puzzled, here is my best guess as to what is going on (pretty off topic but it could only help to share).

I think my sleep cycle has become somehow so screwed up that I have what you could label "advanced sleep phase syndrome". Basically my body is trying to sleep from early in the evening until about 3-4am. I've noticed before but never really connected it to my sleep cycle- that right after dinner (low carb) I feel really tired.

Weird that something like that would not reset itself given my schedule but anyhow many of the things I've been trying that have been recommended to me may have been counterproductive. For example, I keep being told to avoid light at night, get light first thing in the morning, try herbal aid x before bed, etc. but these are meant to help people who can't get to sleep or constantly wake up. I sleep like a rock when I do get to bed.. but just wake up ready to go super early. So some of the stuff I have tried to use to help may have just been further supporting an early sleep cycle..

So for the past little while I've been trying to stay stimulated a bit more at night, forcing myself to stay up later, as opposed to having an attitude anywhere near "ok i just need more sleep so lets go to bed as early as possible". So far so good as my wake up time seems to be pushing back slowly but still too early to tell.

As for the iron issue.. and digestion in general: well I don't know but I can guess that the constant sleep issue has just effed up my digestion to the point where iron has become low, and I'm not digesting meals well. So I started taking dig enzymes with most meals and making proper digestion a really high priority.

Since I've really scaled back my activity levels.. I have simplified my diet to be small breakfast (typically a few eggs or leftover meat with one piece of fruit), ~40-50 g PRO on a salad for lunch, and big serving of meat with cooked veggies for dinner. Some nuts for a snack sometimes. Kind of like de vany style eating that first got me on to paleo eating. <100 g CHO.

Other things I'm doing just to eliminate any other factors: staying away from intense workouts, cleanest diet as possible, no carb ups, aiming for a one month coffee hiatus (first week was tough!).. and supplementing with some theanine 3x / day on empty stomach. If it is just an adrenal/cortisol issue I'm hopefully addressing that as well.

My new job is going good and can't complain about life otherwise.

Doctor's appointment in new year.. I guess just get my iron retested and try not to think too much about it.
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Old 12-24-2009, 01:04 PM   #13
Garrett Smith
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I just had a patient with very screwed up sleep and an iron deficency anemia that was extremely resistant to iron supplementation (from her other doc).

We started working on general liver herb/nutrient supplementation (to help with detoxification), she started sleeping better relatively quickly. Then we tested her for toxic metals, because chronic lead toxicity is definitely something to rule out in unresponsive iron deficiency anemia. Lead binds to the same places as iron, and can keep iron from binding much at all.

She tested high in lead (shocker!). We are starting more direct treatment for the lead now, I expect her to improve quite rapidly.

Greg, you might want to look to an ND up there who will do the urine toxic metals test (preferably using DMPS as the chelating agent) and look for lead toxicity. Don't waste your time with a blood test.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Davis View Post
Update:

No luck on doctor's end for what might be causing the sleep issues. Why iron is low is a puzzle too.

Still taking some iron supplements and will have that retested in the new year. Sleep issue still largely the same, except I've made some progress of late.

Although I'm still pretty puzzled, here is my best guess as to what is going on (pretty off topic but it could only help to share).

I think my sleep cycle has become somehow so screwed up that I have what you could label "advanced sleep phase syndrome". Basically my body is trying to sleep from early in the evening until about 3-4am. I've noticed before but never really connected it to my sleep cycle- that right after dinner (low carb) I feel really tired.

Weird that something like that would not reset itself given my schedule but anyhow many of the things I've been trying that have been recommended to me may have been counterproductive. For example, I keep being told to avoid light at night, get light first thing in the morning, try herbal aid x before bed, etc. but these are meant to help people who can't get to sleep or constantly wake up. I sleep like a rock when I do get to bed.. but just wake up ready to go super early. So some of the stuff I have tried to use to help may have just been further supporting an early sleep cycle..

So for the past little while I've been trying to stay stimulated a bit more at night, forcing myself to stay up later, as opposed to having an attitude anywhere near "ok i just need more sleep so lets go to bed as early as possible". So far so good as my wake up time seems to be pushing back slowly but still too early to tell.

As for the iron issue.. and digestion in general: well I don't know but I can guess that the constant sleep issue has just effed up my digestion to the point where iron has become low, and I'm not digesting meals well. So I started taking dig enzymes with most meals and making proper digestion a really high priority.

Since I've really scaled back my activity levels.. I have simplified my diet to be small breakfast (typically a few eggs or leftover meat with one piece of fruit), ~40-50 g PRO on a salad for lunch, and big serving of meat with cooked veggies for dinner. Some nuts for a snack sometimes. Kind of like de vany style eating that first got me on to paleo eating. <100 g CHO.

Other things I'm doing just to eliminate any other factors: staying away from intense workouts, cleanest diet as possible, no carb ups, aiming for a one month coffee hiatus (first week was tough!).. and supplementing with some theanine 3x / day on empty stomach. If it is just an adrenal/cortisol issue I'm hopefully addressing that as well.

My new job is going good and can't complain about life otherwise.

Doctor's appointment in new year.. I guess just get my iron retested and try not to think too much about it.
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Old 12-25-2009, 07:38 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett Smith View Post
We started working on general liver herb/nutrient supplementation (to help with detoxification), she started sleeping better relatively quickly. Then we tested her for toxic metals, because chronic lead toxicity is definitely something to rule out in unresponsive iron deficiency anemia. Lead binds to the same places as iron, and can keep iron from binding much at all.
You know I just recently received back the BED book that my gf's sister borrowed from us and I gave it another read. Sounds like the section in there on liver cleansing might be highly relevant here.. I'm very interested in what it has to say about liver and sleep. There is a lot in the book that makes me skeptical all around but maybe there is something to go on here..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett Smith View Post
Greg, you might want to look to an ND up there who will do the urine toxic metals test (preferably using DMPS as the chelating agent) and look for lead toxicity. Don't waste your time with a blood test.
Hmm.. thanks for the recommendation. I will go to my MD in the new year, get another iron test. See how things are going and then potentially look up an ND.
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Old 01-05-2010, 12:05 PM   #15
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Caught a cold over the holidays so havenít been training much and skipped a few meals. Otherwise managed to have only a few glasses of wine and ate well over the holidays.

Sleep still disturbed although Iíve had a few solid nights in last couple weeks.

Saw my doctor and managed to get my hands on the actual tests Iíve had done (from October).

Abnormal:
Creatinine: 113 (higher than normal 60-110)
Hemoglobin: 124 (lower than normal 135-170)
Hematocrit: 0.36 (lower than normal .38-.49)
RBC: 3.93 (lower than normal 4.2-5.7)
MCH: 32 (right at high end of 27-32)
Transferrin: 1.7 (lower than normal 2.1-3.6)
Free testosterone: 21.2 (lower than normal 31-94)

Relevant:
Ferritin: 121 (within 31-300 normal range; I was actually led to believe previously that I was also abnormal in ferritin, but I donít think this is real low so it seems that my haemoglobin is more of a problem than my stored iron)
Cortisol fasting (AM): 419 (normal 170 Ė 540)
Total testosterone: 17.9 (normal 8-38)
Stool test came back ok
Iím told my liver, thyroid, look ok

Doctor ran one more set of blood tests to see if some of my levels have moved.. added a few that I canít remember. Results back next week.
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Old 01-05-2010, 02:10 PM   #16
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Observations in your blood test:
You have an anemia. Doesn't look too iron-related to me.
Your MCH is high. This can indicate B12 deficiency.
Quote:
WHAT CAN CAUSE THE MEAN CORPUSCULAR HEMOGLOBIN TO BE TOO HIGH?

Generally, if the MCH level is over 34, this is considered to be too high. The main reason that the MCH level would be too high is because of macrocytic anemia. Macrocytic anemia is a blood disorder in which not enough red blood cells are produced, but the ones that are present are large (thus fitting more hemoglobin). Macrocytic anemia is often caused by having too little vitamin B12 or folic acid (a type of vitamin) in the body.
Read this: Non-transferrin-bound serum iron (NTBI) in megaloblastic anemia:
effect of vitamin B12 treatment

If you can understand it (it's not very layperson-friendly, but you're a smart guy), you may be able to see the relevance to your situation.

Funny thing, B12 plays a crucial role in melatonin production (can you say insomnia if one is deficient?):

Quote:
B12 and sleep

Those who can't get to sleep at night may need vitamin B12. Studies show that B12 causes an earlier release of melatonin at night which resets the sleep-wake cycle. (Melatonin has been called "the sleep hormone" because of its effects on sleep). B12 acts directly on the pineal gland to provoke a faster release of melatonin. At the tail end, B12 causes melatonin to drop off faster. B12 helps you get to sleep earlier, and may help you wake up earlier if you leave a curtain open to the morning sun. B12 sensitizes you to morning light, which helps you wake up. Very serious sleep-wake disorders have been successfully treated with vitamin B12 in the methylcobalamin form, although it may not work for everyone. Unfortunately, the vitamin doesn't help people who want to cut down on their sleep time altogether.
A couple of symptoms, a couple of funny lab tests.

Your lesson here (besides finding some good B12 to take, I suggest methylcobalamin injections at the start to improve your situation most rapidly, look to an ND for these) is to ALWAYS get copies of your lab reports.
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Old 01-05-2010, 05:47 PM   #17
Greg Davis
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This can indicate B12 deficiency.
Hmm even if my B12 level is showing as normal on the standard blood work?

(I don't have the test result in front of me but it did test for B12 and came out not deficient- I will check the actual number tomorrow)

Is this a case of (a) the standard test used is a poor indicator of actual B12 levels; (b) the normal accepted "not deficient levels" are set too low; or (c) some people just need much higher levels of B12?
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Old 01-05-2010, 06:50 PM   #18
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All 3 to some extent, mostly A:
http://www.naturalnews.com/027027_vi...B_doctors.html
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Old 01-06-2010, 05:45 AM   #19
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Vitamin B12: 417 (>150 considered not deficient)

From preliminary research it does seem to fit that this is on the low end of normal (sub-500) and so I am going to follow up on this
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Old 01-06-2010, 05:12 PM   #20
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Interesting day today.

Called my MD to hear his thoughts on possible B12 deficiency. He didn't think much of it. Said that if I had macrocytic anemia I would have an elevated MCV (which I don't) and that my high MCH isn't alarming. Ok, but I insisted we consider B12 and he agreed to schedule me a B12 shot this friday.
Also, apparently my next blood test partially came back and my total testosterone has plummeted even further, to a level of 6.4 (from 17.9 back in October). Yikes. MD brought up possible need for testosterone therapy. Crap that scared me, I don't think that is a good idea, at least only as a last resort.

So, a bit freaked out, I made it over to an ND that I had recommended to me a ways back (wish I was near Dr. G but had to take a bit of a leap of faith on this guy). Have been holding off on that not wanting to spend the $$. Anyway, I ate threw a bit of money but hopefully enlisted the help of someone who might be able to help.

We talked about my issues and ran through some stuff including:
- LBC analysis
- gave a urine and saliva sample for bio terrain analysis (results next week)
- glucometer (I was at 4.9 I think.. slightly low, this was before having lunch)
- got a B12 injection

Looked at my blood cells under a microscope.. saw some really wacky things that I'm told by the ND is quite abnormal.. showing major signs of b-12 deficiency, digestion issues, gut and/or liver inflammation, and possible allergies

treatment thus far:
- B12 shot today (will get another B12 injection from MD on friday, another from ND on monday)
- B12 supplement (methyl) given to take daily
- recommended to take 15-30 billion probiotics daily

We talked about possible contributing factors being liver congestion and adrenal fatigure that we might want to look at depending on how things go

Follow up appointment on monday:
- getting another b12 shot
- taking a look at a food log
- zinc tally test
- look at results from "bio terrain anaylsis"

I don't know exactly what to think about the ND stuff.. the live blood analysis looked intriguing but whether or not it is bogus I just don't know. Will need to assess the guy's process moving forward.. don't want to waste money but he was highly recommended..
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