Help creatig S&C Program that works with BJJ

[Greg Davis]

Geez forget that idea.. went back in to my BJJ gym after a bit of a hiatus and was not impressed to see they ripped out the weight room section to make more room for muay thai classes..

Erg!

[Mark Joseph Limbaga]

Originally Posted by Greg Davis

Hey guys what are your thoughts on fitting the 5/3/1 workouts in around BJJ training as far as timing?

I prefer to go in for a separate session but as far as scheduling it is sometimes super convenient to hit a heavy weight and then go to a class. I go to 1 hour morning BJJ classes at my gym which thank god are more focused on technique and not running around doing a million high rep sets for "cardio".

Of course it depends on how intense the class is so that can be an unpredictable variable, but IMO as long as you aren't overdoing it, a 5/3/1 session on the brief side then a BJJ class can work out well.

Thoughts/experiences?

I always preferred to lift before training...

the #1 rule: listen to your body

[Grissim Connery]

Originally Posted by Mark Joseph Limbaga

I always preferred to lift before training...

if i can lift several hours before training, then i prefer this. if it's lifting and then going straight into class, then i don't like this at all. if that's the case, then working out after class is fine too. in general i find that i have less pressure to condition after class since i feel like i probably already conditioned just by training. therefore, i can just focus on strength and skill work. granted though, i normally don't expect great performance cause i'm probably tired.

i do feel though that after working on strength and skill after training for a while does make me much more capable when i do come into a fresh workout session without training beforehand.

it's more reasonable to me to train after class because most people are training at the 6-8pm times anyways, and if you have a normal workday, then there's no good free time beforehand. that is unless you workout in the morning, but that just makes my back hurt.

if you train at noon or so, and then workout in the evening, that would probably be ideal. although my guess would be that if you feel up to it, you should train both at noon and in the evening and only workout if you don't have the energy (although that may sound weird).

[Robb Wolf]

Great thread. Wanted to ask folks, why a 531 template (sticking with base moves for long-ish duration) vs a MEBB approach of rotating the strength work. Let's say something like Gant's program, but in lieu of 531, a rotating battery of ME moves?

[Grissim Connery]

I've been more wiped out recently after training. This has made S&C after class harder. i'd still like to work out after class, but need to find a way to put forth the energy. anybody have tips other than trucker drugs and blow?

i thought of drinking a dextrose drink and waiting an hour. the only problem is that waiting starts to push later into the night, and then i start to impinge on my girlfriend's patience.

[Grissim Connery]

Originally Posted by Robb Wolf

Great thread. Wanted to ask folks, why a 531 template (sticking with base moves for long-ish duration) vs a MEBB approach of rotating the strength work. Let's say something like Gant's program, but in lieu of 531, a rotating battery of ME moves?

i think 531 just takes less thinking. i'm not saying it's dumb, but more of the fact that when you're worn out from training, switching exercises seems oddly fatiguing on the mind.

[Derek Simonds]

Originally Posted by Robb Wolf

Great thread. Wanted to ask folks, why a 531 template (sticking with base moves for long-ish duration) vs a MEBB approach of rotating the strength work. Let's say something like Gant's program, but in lieu of 531, a rotating battery of ME moves?

I agree with Grissim about the simplicity and not having to think about it. I program a month in advance, post the excel spreadsheet in my gym and I am done other than showing up.

The other part is three-fold. I get a real clear indication of my level of overtraining / underrecovering from the workouts. With very linear numbers on the same lifts week over week I know exactly how I am tracking and can compensate accordingly. If I feel I am starting to push too far I will cut out the accessory work. If I need to I will only strength train 2 days a week. Lots of flexibility for me to work within this framework without having to give it too much attention. Secondly I am truly a linear person, Knowing up front every day what lifts and numbers I need to hit for the set and rep scheme just works for me. The last part is that I have had the most significant gains ever using this protocol so my own little 5/3/1 BB has definitely passed.

I know that there is a ton of flexibility in the MEBB approach. I watch Coach Rut in my google reader all the time and like the MEBB approach. I am sure if I programmed it a month in advance with actual numbers I could get the same results, just haven't been that motivated to try it since I have been having good success with the 5/3/1

Robb I thought about my reply a lot and hope that it is clear enough.

[Robb Wolf]

Guys-
I really appreciate the time, and yes, Derek, very clear.

it's funny, I program for others all the time but now that I'm rolling again and looking towards tournaments I need a handle on my own training. I'll sketch out what I'm up to and get y'alls input.

[Gant Grimes]

Robb, I like 531 for the reasons others mentioned. There's nothing to overthink, so you can cut the trainee loose. It's useful for novices or intermediates, and the use of one heavy workset doesn't burn you out like sets across in a linear program. The AMRAP set also dovetails into other conditioning work better than a limit strength program does.

I'd do something different if I was coaching and programming for a specific trainee (assuming I was also familiar with his technique work). It would look more like my old stuff or like Rut's. But there is a lot of wiggle room, which means a lot of opportunities for an ignorant trainee to screw up the program. Not as much with 531.

For the spring season, I toyed with a combination of 531 (which I nixed closer to tourney time), timed sets on the KBs, Dan John's barbell complexes, and prowler work. I liked it a lot.

Also check Joel Jamieson's stuff.

[Anton Emery]

Good thread. I think all the approaches mentioned are valid, depending on the individual. After some starting and stopping I am back to following Joel Jamieson's program laid out in his book. I figure he coached most of the Pride roster, so its at least worth a shot and i can see how i respond. The aerobic phase has been interesting, basically just keeping the heart rate between 120-150 for 30-90 min. For that I have been mostly been doing various things around the gym, practicing wrestling shots, BJJ drills, some gymnastics stuff, anything to keep my HR up for the allotted amount of time.

Hopefully i can stick to this. In the past i have tended to jump from one fitness goal to the other, as i see fellow gym members become better O-lifters, or get better at gymnastics. I see them do it and i want to do it too, when in reality i need to train for my sport of juijitsu.


Anton