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Old 05-28-2010, 11:57 AM   #41
Donald Lee
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Not that I think anybody will be convinced this way or that, Matt Perryman wrote an article about science vs. experience:

http://www.ampedtraining.com/knowled...-why-pick-one/
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Old 05-28-2010, 12:48 PM   #42
Dave Van Skike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald Lee View Post
Not that I think anybody will be convinced this way or that, Matt Perryman wrote an article about science vs. experience:

http://www.ampedtraining.com/knowled...-why-pick-one/
his heart's in the right place but he didn't say anything. he presented a false dilemma and answered with a cliche'.
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Old 05-28-2010, 05:42 PM   #43
Anoop Balachandran
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Quote:
his heart's in the right place but he didn't say anything. he presented a false dilemma and answered with a cliche'.
And this a honest question.

Do you think science atleasT helps in certain areas in this field or do you think that no matter what science doesn't do zilch in the bodybuilding/fitness/athletic field?
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Old 05-28-2010, 06:18 PM   #44
Dave Van Skike
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this is an honest answer.

don't be obtuse. of course it does.

the original topic: the false debate between low reps /hi reps whatever for getting bigger..is retarded. the answer is, "it depends". this is almost always the answer. in fact, any other answer just tend to illuminate how little experience the respondent has.


you have suggested hostility. wrong. most people here have some goals, have some experience have trained others have had a few injuries have won things in sport, have had their asses kicked...they have baseline experience. it is from this experience that they react to what looks like a trolling attempt from another MS in exercise science with website to pimp. maybe i'm wrong about that.

speaking for me, i object to the the regurgitation of platitudes and the prescription of "protocols", studies and programs without an accompanying first person narrative. Articles like the one above (and most of yours frankly) toss out training concepts like menu selections. this is not useful. it's a game. most of the studies you cite are about as useful as a sudoku puzzle, an interesting way to spend ones' time but not a foundation for reality based training. For that, 99 trainees out of a 100, would be better served ditching the books, the internet crap, new england journal of whatever the fuck and just go squat press and pull. do this consistently, with good form and focus and you will make progress. Period. better still, find someone who squats presses and pulls more than you and learn from their mistakes. then you will know something even more useful.

Bottom line. in this field, until you have a had barbell in your hand for a long time, you probably don't have anything useful for me. that said, i'll try to learn from anyone, whether they be a total noob, a journeyman hack such as myself, or an accomplished national coach in oly lifting if they can tell me what they did, what they observed and what they think about it. i'll rely on my judgment to absorb what i need and reject what i don't.


edit: having re-read this, i sound like a bit of an ass, sadly..this is true. i am an ass so don't take the diatribe personally. you opened the door by asking an honest question. if you feel i've misread you, feel free to PM me.
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Old 05-28-2010, 08:39 PM   #45
Ken Rich
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Dave,

You've done yeoman's work in this thread and exhibited great patience. Well done.

I always appreciate your contributions.

Ken
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Old 05-29-2010, 06:12 AM   #46
Anoop Balachandran
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the original topic: the false debate between low reps /hi reps whatever for getting bigger..is retarded. the answer is, "it depends". this is almost always the answer. in fact, any other answer just tend to illuminate how little experience the respondent has.
The article basically says there is no debate. You will get bigger whether you do high reps or low reps. Though everyone says 8-12 is the optimal for muscle growth.

And you are right about it depends. If the article was about explaining when is low reps or high reps better, I would have talked about it. So it depends on what the article is all about.

Quote:
Bottom line. in this field, until you have a had barbell in your hand for a long time, you probably don't have anything useful for me. that said, i'll try to learn from anyone, whether they be a total noob, a journeyman hack such as myself, or an accomplished national coach in oly lifting if they can tell me what they did, what they observed and what they think about it. i'll rely on my judgment to absorb what i need and reject what i don't.
Can you point me anything I wrote in this thread which says experience is isn’t important ir evidence based approach do not take judgement/experience?

Quote:
edit: having re-read this, i sound like a bit of an ass, sadly..this is true. i am an ass so don't take the diatribe personally. you opened the door by asking an honest question. if you feel i've misread you, feel free to PM me.
You can always disagree and still be respectful and polite. A few people like Steve, Donald, Garett are good examples. I read your posts which you edited and deleted and it was full of personal attacks. You going after me in other threads and making those comments...I purposefully try not to reply to those posts though I don't feel good reading those.

And I do think I am not the person you are making out of me.

I know there are a lot of people and sites which quote scientific studies to sell cutting edge programs, diet and products. All my articles are pretty reasonable and most of the time it is usually common wisdom supported by science. I don’t have any cutting edge program or diet that I promote. The article which I posted just says what we know for a long time. Do whatever rep range and you will get bigger too. The other recent article talks about even if you train like a powerlifter, you will put some serious muscle mass. The other recent one says you don’t have to waste money on 60 gms of protein where taking 20-30 gms will be sufficient.

The first article I wrote 7 years back had almost 66 references to conclude it doesn’t matter what rep range or how many sets or how many days. If you are getting stronger, you are doing something right. And if you read my forum and articles, you will sense the same recommendations . And my site talks about weight loss, organic food, cancer, body fat and so on. I like anything health related and have passion for learning which is sometimes I write a lot about why of things. I even called up and talked to the guy who coined the term evidence based approach to learn more about it.

And I do workout, I have pic up on my forum if people think I am an arm chair expert. Before I hurt my low back, I only used to dips, deadlifts, squats, and bench, shoulder press. The only isolation i do now is for arms. I am more into muscle growth so I focus a lot on squeezing and pausing and such.

And i know you are a good guy who means well and is frustrated by all the scientific jumbu mumbo they come up with to sell programs & prodcuts. And I do understand that.
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Old 05-29-2010, 09:30 AM   #47
Dave Van Skike
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chk your PM.s
good luck with all of that.
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Old 06-01-2010, 08:56 AM   #48
Gant Grimes
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It's always fun to compare the training and competitive pedigrees of the science crowd vs. the "anecdotal" crowd. I'm marginally interested in the science behind this stuff, but much more so if you've ever blacked out or thrown up after a heavy set of 20. That's where you're going to get pushback from some of the older guys. You accuse Dave of being hostile, but you are basically saying anything other than evidence-based training is stupid. You wear a coat in your lab; others wear a uniform.
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